litchfield twin scroll turbo
24 March 2010, 06:00 PM
#421
Thanks for the clarifications/corrections Simon - I usually only manage to get it half right when reporting what you've said 
Definitely want the megarom sorted...and I'm still mulling over the lower than expected torque...and thinking I might as well take a punt on the oem headers otherwise I'll be forever wondering what they might have done.
So, looks like I'll be seeing you again next week
Definitely want the megarom sorted...and I'm still mulling over the lower than expected torque...and thinking I might as well take a punt on the oem headers otherwise I'll be forever wondering what they might have done.
So, looks like I'll be seeing you again next week
25 March 2010, 03:52 PM
#423
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Could someone in the know please PM me with how much the turbo upgrade would cost for a MK 1 T25. I mean the full cost of parts and labour and mapping
Many thanks
Martin
Many thanks
Martin
25 March 2010, 09:11 PM
#425
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Thanks Iain
Does the fact that I have the Cossie bottom-end give me more options??
What sort of torque is this set up likely to deliver over-and-above what I already have circa 390lbs ft?
Thanks for the prompt response to my earlier question
Cheers
Martin
28 March 2010, 01:33 AM
#427
Has anyone else got any feedback on these am surprised out the whole of SN there only two of you i thought there would of been loads by now! Anyone in the northwest area had this turbo bolted on as i would really love to have a blast in one so i can decide on what to go for.
01 April 2010, 11:52 PM
#429
Swapped the car back to my mildy-ported OEM twinscroll headers and up-pipe today at S4U, followed by 3 hours of Simon-magic on the rollers and road, including setting up the "megarom".
Mapped for 1.7bar peak, holding 1.6bar.
470bhp@6500rpm, 460ftlb@4300rpm, >385ftlb from 3900rpm to 6300rpm. Spool on the road 1 bar at 2800, 1.6 bar 3200rpm (RR plot spools 800 rpm later, in 4th rather than 6th of course).
Still on the OEM ECU and with a centre cat
The drive is incredibly smooth and exactly the punchy, fast spooling drive I'd expected.
We got there!!!! At long last.
Also got a low boost map (1.3 bar) but not tried that yet
BIG BIG BIG thanks to Simon for his unerring patience in sorting this and mapping it again and again until it was right, and to Len for test piloting, as well as working with me on the issues.
I'm a very happy Easter bunny
Mapped for 1.7bar peak, holding 1.6bar.
470bhp@6500rpm, 460ftlb@4300rpm, >385ftlb from 3900rpm to 6300rpm. Spool on the road 1 bar at 2800, 1.6 bar 3200rpm (RR plot spools 800 rpm later, in 4th rather than 6th of course).
Still on the OEM ECU and with a centre cat
The drive is incredibly smooth and exactly the punchy, fast spooling drive I'd expected.
We got there!!!! At long last.
Also got a low boost map (1.3 bar) but not tried that yet
BIG BIG BIG thanks to Simon for his unerring patience in sorting this and mapping it again and again until it was right, and to Len for test piloting, as well as working with me on the issues.
I'm a very happy Easter bunny
02 April 2010, 09:22 AM
#432
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Tim,
Are you now a convert of how good the standard OE headers really are?!
Glad you got it sorted and with a cat on it sounds about right now.
Are you now a convert of how good the standard OE headers really are?!
Glad you got it sorted and with a cat on it sounds about right now.
02 April 2010, 09:44 AM
#433
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Brilliant, really pleased for you Tim
Well done Simon and Len!
Must feel like a different car than before and boost control looks excellent now Simon doesn’t have to battle against the dump valve.
No PM received Johnny, probably best to email me.
Regards
Iain
Well done Simon and Len!
Must feel like a different car than before and boost control looks excellent now Simon doesn’t have to battle against the dump valve.
No PM received Johnny, probably best to email me.
Regards
Iain
Last edited by LitchfieldImports; 02 April 2010 at 09:45 AM.
02 April 2010, 01:55 PM
#436
At the time, I was also intending to stay with the TMIC, and had a lower power target- so had them ceramic coated to keep the engine bay temps down: it was easier to do that to the Lateral ones than it was to grind off the heat shields and lugs from the oem ones.
I know the lateral ones would be great on a more standard 2.0l twinscroll as they will give 20-30 more bhp and lbft, as I understand it, and being ceramic coated, even better for a standard car. I will be selling them ASAP
03 April 2010, 11:09 AM
#439
Well done Tim. It has been interesting watching your progress and you can now enjoy the results of your efforts and those who have supported you. Well done.
Yes, I think we deserve to know why your power figure is .0212765 % approx, down on what you expected.
Would you care to comment on this?
Would you care to comment on this?
03 April 2010, 11:52 AM
#441
We could have got 480, or even 500, by upping the boost - the setup responded really well to additional boost: but this is a stock EJ25 SCDB so I need to be reasonably sympathatic to it, and, although the build uses Cometic head gaskets, I was advised to keep boost to 1.6bar in the interests of longevity
My quest was always 2 things: spool, and torque. I think the torque is still a little lower than hoped, but it's more than enough...for now
. And, as Harvey says, it's 2% down on the "as sold" power target - and who cares
Also the cat centre pipe will be restricting flow at the top end - take that out and I'd probably get 480 on the nose.
Peter - thanks for the headers: you saved the day Car drives brilliantly, with a huge power band (well, torque band to be more accurate, I guess). I'm really looking forward to driving Castle Combe on the 16th (still spaces for that track day by the way ).
Not driven it much since Friday so I'll add further feedback in a few days.
My quest was always 2 things: spool, and torque. I think the torque is still a little lower than hoped, but it's more than enough...for now
. And, as Harvey says, it's 2% down on the "as sold" power target - and who cares Also the cat centre pipe will be restricting flow at the top end - take that out and I'd probably get 480 on the nose.
Peter - thanks for the headers: you saved the day
Car drives brilliantly, with a huge power band (well, torque band to be more accurate, I guess). I'm really looking forward to driving Castle Combe on the 16th (still spaces for that track day by the way ).Not driven it much since Friday so I'll add further feedback in a few days.
03 April 2010, 11:52 AM
#442
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Harvey -I made it 2.3% down - shocking !!
What size head studs did you go for Tim or do ARP only do 11mm ?
What size head studs did you go for Tim or do ARP only do 11mm ?
Last edited by StanS; 03 April 2010 at 12:04 PM.
03 April 2010, 12:18 PM
#443
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We could have got 480, or even 500, by upping the boost - the setup responded really well to additional boost: but this is a stock EJ25 SCDB so I need to be reasonably sympathatic to it, and, although the build uses Cometic head gaskets, I was advised to keep boost to 1.6bar in the interests of longevity
My quest was always 2 things: spool, and torque. I think the torque is still a little lower than hoped, but it's more than enough...for now. And, as Harvey says, it's 2% down on the "as sold" power target - and who cares
Also the cat centre pipe will be restricting flow at the top end - take that out and I'd probably get 480 on the nose.
Peter - thanks for the headers: you saved the day Car drives brilliantly, with a huge power band (well, torque band to be more accurate, I guess). I'm really looking forward to driving Castle Combe on the 16th (still spaces for that track day by the way ).
Not driven it much since Friday so I'll add further feedback in a few days.
My quest was always 2 things: spool, and torque. I think the torque is still a little lower than hoped, but it's more than enough...for now
. And, as Harvey says, it's 2% down on the "as sold" power target - and who cares Also the cat centre pipe will be restricting flow at the top end - take that out and I'd probably get 480 on the nose.
Peter - thanks for the headers: you saved the day
Car drives brilliantly, with a huge power band (well, torque band to be more accurate, I guess). I'm really looking forward to driving Castle Combe on the 16th (still spaces for that track day by the way ).Not driven it much since Friday so I'll add further feedback in a few days.
03 April 2010, 12:22 PM
#444
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StanS,
Get the Cosworth STOPPER headgaskets and the Cosworth High Tensile 11mm headbolts. That's the best combination of parts (with 11mm constraint) to keep the heads attached. I was originally on the Cometic HG's, previous (non high-tensile as per ARP's) Cosworth headbolts AND had a step put in the block face to increase clamping pressure..... it lasted just under 10k miles, before the HG's popped.
BUT
The engine spent literally 100's of hours on the dyno, was consistantly running 2bar, had a blast up to 2.5bar and was used as it was built for. Hard work. So you should take all of this into account.
I now have two boost settings. One is low boost @ 1.5bar for 480+bhp and high boost of 1.9bar for 530+bhp. OE block case is still as sound as a pound after 3yrs.
Who is building your engine?
Get the Cosworth STOPPER headgaskets and the Cosworth High Tensile 11mm headbolts. That's the best combination of parts (with 11mm constraint) to keep the heads attached.
I was originally on the Cometic HG's, previous (non high-tensile as per ARP's) Cosworth headbolts AND had a step put in the block face to increase clamping pressure..... it lasted just under 10k miles, before the HG's popped.BUT
The engine spent literally 100's of hours on the dyno, was consistantly running 2bar, had a blast up to 2.5bar and was used as it was built for. Hard work. So you should take all of this into account.
I now have two boost settings. One is low boost @ 1.5bar for 480+bhp and high boost of 1.9bar for 530+bhp. OE block case is still as sound as a pound after 3yrs.
Who is building your engine?
Last edited by Shaun; 03 April 2010 at 12:24 PM.
03 April 2010, 02:04 PM
#445
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Hi Shaun !
Using mainly Cosworth parts incl head gasket and 14mm head bolts (belt and braces !)
Alan Jeffery is building it. Check out my garage for full spec
Dont think with std heads I'll get 480 at 1.5 bar (lol) and hope not to go over 1.6 to help engine life. So probably aim for a similar output to Tim's if poossible.
Is it the peak boost mid range to get peak torque that is likely to blow h gaskets or the high power at high revs ?? or both ?
Using mainly Cosworth parts incl head gasket and 14mm head bolts (belt and braces !)
Alan Jeffery is building it. Check out my garage for full spec
Dont think with std heads I'll get 480 at 1.5 bar (lol) and hope not to go over 1.6 to help engine life. So probably aim for a similar output to Tim's if poossible.
Is it the peak boost mid range to get peak torque that is likely to blow h gaskets or the high power at high revs ?? or both ?
03 April 2010, 03:20 PM
#446
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Hi Stan,
Don't forget I am running high compression as well, which relates (in my build) more power for less boost and ignition, even on VPower. I would whole heartedly recommend this for 2.5's, as it provides awesome throttle response and instant grunt...... even on the largest GT30 wheel which is what I use.
The devil is actually in the detail and whilst what I mentioned is my peak boost, I am actually achieving peak power with even less.
The low boost is 1.5bar peak and circa 1.4bar at peak power (485bhp).
The high boost is 1.95bar peak and circa 1.75bar at peak power (530+bhp).
From what I know, it is likely to be the peak boost / peak torque that causes the HG's to blow.... BUT a number of things can contribute to HG failure. Heat is not good, cylinder movement is not good, head/block movement is not good. Again there are many things that can cause these, so it can get very complicated.
Don't forget I am running high compression as well, which relates (in my build) more power for less boost and ignition, even on VPower. I would whole heartedly recommend this for 2.5's, as it provides awesome throttle response and instant grunt...... even on the largest GT30 wheel which is what I use.
The devil is actually in the detail and whilst what I mentioned is my peak boost, I am actually achieving peak power with even less.
The low boost is 1.5bar peak and circa 1.4bar at peak power (485bhp).
The high boost is 1.95bar peak and circa 1.75bar at peak power (530+bhp).
From what I know, it is likely to be the peak boost / peak torque that causes the HG's to blow.... BUT a number of things can contribute to HG failure. Heat is not good, cylinder movement is not good, head/block movement is not good. Again there are many things that can cause these, so it can get very complicated.
03 April 2010, 03:40 PM
#448
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Peter - thanks for the headers: you saved the day Car drives brilliantly, with a huge power band (well, torque band to be more accurate, I guess). I'm really looking forward to driving Castle Combe on the 16th (still spaces for that track day by the way ).
Not driven it much since Friday so I'll add further feedback in a few days.
Car drives brilliantly, with a huge power band (well, torque band to be more accurate, I guess). I'm really looking forward to driving Castle Combe on the 16th (still spaces for that track day by the way ).Not driven it much since Friday so I'll add further feedback in a few days.
Won'y be doing any track days until its running good
06 April 2010, 09:11 AM
#450
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Hi Stan,
Don't forget I am running high compression as well, which relates (in my build) more power for less boost and ignition, even on VPower. I would whole heartedly recommend this for 2.5's, as it provides awesome throttle response and instant grunt...... even on the largest GT30 wheel which is what I use.
The devil is actually in the detail and whilst what I mentioned is my peak boost, I am actually achieving peak power with even less.
The low boost is 1.5bar peak and circa 1.4bar at peak power (485bhp).
The high boost is 1.95bar peak and circa 1.75bar at peak power (530+bhp).
From what I know, it is likely to be the peak boost / peak torque that causes the HG's to blow.... BUT a number of things can contribute to HG failure. Heat is not good, cylinder movement is not good, head/block movement is not good. Again there are many things that can cause these, so it can get very complicated.
Don't forget I am running high compression as well, which relates (in my build) more power for less boost and ignition, even on VPower. I would whole heartedly recommend this for 2.5's, as it provides awesome throttle response and instant grunt...... even on the largest GT30 wheel which is what I use.
The devil is actually in the detail and whilst what I mentioned is my peak boost, I am actually achieving peak power with even less.
The low boost is 1.5bar peak and circa 1.4bar at peak power (485bhp).
The high boost is 1.95bar peak and circa 1.75bar at peak power (530+bhp).
From what I know, it is likely to be the peak boost / peak torque that causes the HG's to blow.... BUT a number of things can contribute to HG failure. Heat is not good, cylinder movement is not good, head/block movement is not good. Again there are many things that can cause these, so it can get very complicated.
I think all the Cosworth gaskets have the "stopper" ring. But as Alan has built more engines than I have had hot dinners (although I think that may be a close call as you dont get to be my shape by turning down hot dinners
) he will chose the best parts for the job. The objective of this engine is to make it reliable so compromises will be involved - so it may not have the CR that gives the ultimate in response, or the peak/held boost that would give max output.I would be delighted to achieve similar output to Tim's fabulous results - but I believe my heads are different to Tims and may not flow as well.
Last edited by StanS; 06 April 2010 at 09:26 AM.