litchfield twin scroll turbo
06 November 2010, 06:59 PM
#661
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Current (not final) results from the LM480. A phantom det (apparently some engine resonances making the det sensor think det was occuring) issue was discovered, which pulled loads of timing from Martyn's map. So the current map shows now 460 ft-lbs at peak boost of 1.5 bar and 457 BHP at 1.3 bar. Don't know about Iain, but I was amazed 
May also test a bigger air intake to check if the current one is maxing out - it seems the std cams may be maxing out.
Massive thanks to Mervyn@EcuTek, Bob Rawle and Iain for looking at it and spotting the problem, and to Bob for taking things forward in light of the phantom det.
Massive thanks again to Alan and Martyn at Enginetuner for the engine build and his map.
As the maps are "locked", this is a new map by Bob in order to take things forward. Thanks Bob.
May also test a bigger air intake to check if the current one is maxing out - it seems the std cams may be maxing out.
Massive thanks to Mervyn@EcuTek, Bob Rawle and Iain for looking at it and spotting the problem, and to Bob for taking things forward in light of the phantom det.
Massive thanks again to Alan and Martyn at Enginetuner for the engine build and his map.
As the maps are "locked", this is a new map by Bob in order to take things forward. Thanks Bob.
Last edited by StanS; 07 November 2010 at 11:27 AM.
07 November 2010, 09:02 AM
#663
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Cheers Tim, nearly there !
Iain thinks there may be another 20-30BHP when the P Det is sorted without further changes to the map. That would be the very top end of what some people are saying is compatable with reasonable engine life, which was my main aim, rather than squeeze the last BHP out of it. There is talk of trying a larger air filter to make things easier.
Iain thinks there may be another 20-30BHP when the P Det is sorted without further changes to the map. That would be the very top end of what some people are saying is compatable with reasonable engine life, which was my main aim, rather than squeeze the last BHP out of it. There is talk of trying a larger air filter to make things easier.
07 November 2010, 12:31 PM
#665
Mine had to be relocated - it was very apparant when JGM was mapping it on the rollers: ecu pulling timing due to "det" but none in the detcans...it's a common problem apparantly 
FYI my turbo has been tweaked and now has some of the LM500 parts...so it's now an "LM480+". Engine rebuild nearly finished, so should pick it up when I'm back in the UK in a week's time, some running in, then map tweaking in 3 weeks or so
The icing on the cake will be a return to Iain Litchfield, hopefully early next year, for another update to the turbo
FYI my turbo has been tweaked and now has some of the LM500 parts...so it's now an "LM480+". Engine rebuild nearly finished, so should pick it up when I'm back in the UK in a week's time, some running in, then map tweaking in 3 weeks or so
The icing on the cake will be a return to Iain Litchfield, hopefully early next year, for another update to the turbo
07 November 2010, 12:44 PM
#666
Ecu Specialist
The ongoing work involves identifying and then determining if a solution is possible by amending the relevant map settings in the rom, there are also some other opportunity's to improve this car which can/will be implemented. The LM480 flows air effortlessly, there was no problem holding set boost flat to the red line however due to a variety of things, but mainly to minimise the interference from the PD, I tapered the boost and then obtained the power by optimising other settings.
I have been investigating the PD aberration in detail, my own car suffered from it badly to the point it was not nice to drive at all.
For my car relocating the knock sensor resolved it whilst maintaining enough sensitivity to allow the ecu to react to real det, however its not a cart blanche solution and it would be unwise to assume that every car suffering will only need to have the sensor moved. There could be real issues which would be exacerbated to the point of engine damage.
You can clearly see some of the PD effect in the graph Stan has posted, the 5k to 5k5 rpm area is particularly sensitive.
The car is now v quick on the road, as stan says there is potential to get a bit more from it and also to improve the low end response as well once the PD issue is dealt with. Benchmarking the response the turbo makes 1 bar at 3000 rpm from 2k rpm in 4th foot flat.
cheers
bob
I have been investigating the PD aberration in detail, my own car suffered from it badly to the point it was not nice to drive at all.
For my car relocating the knock sensor resolved it whilst maintaining enough sensitivity to allow the ecu to react to real det, however its not a cart blanche solution and it would be unwise to assume that every car suffering will only need to have the sensor moved. There could be real issues which would be exacerbated to the point of engine damage.
You can clearly see some of the PD effect in the graph Stan has posted, the 5k to 5k5 rpm area is particularly sensitive.
The car is now v quick on the road, as stan says there is potential to get a bit more from it and also to improve the low end response as well once the PD issue is dealt with. Benchmarking the response the turbo makes 1 bar at 3000 rpm from 2k rpm in 4th foot flat.
cheers
bob
08 November 2010, 03:42 PM
#667
Scooby Regular
Hope you get it all sorted mate and look forward to the final results run.... just as long as you don't get more than my 398bhp! roflol
18 November 2010, 09:01 PM
#672
My LM480 has been upgraded to be what is probably best described as an "LM480+". It incorporates most of the latest enhancements Iain has devised, but not the billet wheel (yet ).
Also now have 14mm studs and cosworth head gaskets, and the map will be tweaked tomorrow, so I'll let you all know how it gets on...hoping for around 500bhp and similar-ish torque on 10% meth
).Also now have 14mm studs and cosworth head gaskets, and the map will be tweaked tomorrow, so I'll let you all know how it gets on...hoping for around 500bhp and similar-ish torque on 10% meth
19 November 2010, 10:50 PM
#673
So...after some frantic running in this week - 500 miles in 3 days - the rebuilt engine and revised LM480 turbo met up with JGM at Subaru4You for the map tweaks.
Running 10% meth, and mapped for 1.7 bar peak, it responded really well to timing. We chickened out, and stopped adding more advance, once it hit 516bhp and just short of 490 ftlb of torque
On the road, 1 bar is reached at 3000rpm, and 1.7bar just 300 rpm later - mmmm, lively
To say I'm pleased is the understatement of the decade
I cannot thank Iain Litchfield, Len and Marc at Subaru4You, and Simon enough - it's a simply awesome drive now
Hopefully that's it for a while now...well apart from, that is, a visit to Iain's next year for some more turbo tweaks
Running 10% meth, and mapped for 1.7 bar peak, it responded really well to timing. We chickened out, and stopped adding more advance, once it hit 516bhp and just short of 490 ftlb of torque
On the road, 1 bar is reached at 3000rpm, and 1.7bar just 300 rpm later - mmmm, lively
To say I'm pleased is the understatement of the decade
I cannot thank Iain Litchfield, Len and Marc at Subaru4You, and Simon enough - it's a simply awesome drive now
Hopefully that's it for a while now...well apart from, that is, a visit to Iain's next year for some more turbo tweaks
20 November 2010, 12:27 AM
#676
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nice to see you again Tim
The boost control btw is deliverate.. it would run flat boost profile when I asked it to but the heat through the midrange just screwed top end power on the dyno and it looks worse than it is with that scaling on the graph.. fair bit of torque and power etc.. the boost is flat on the road at 1.7bar so possibly higher torque than the graph shows.
Simon
The boost control btw is deliverate.. it would run flat boost profile when I asked it to but the heat through the midrange just screwed top end power on the dyno and it looks worse than it is with that scaling on the graph.. fair bit of torque and power etc.. the boost is flat on the road at 1.7bar so possibly higher torque than the graph shows.
Simon
20 November 2010, 10:32 AM
#679
So...after some frantic running in this week - 500 miles in 3 days - the rebuilt engine and revised LM480 turbo met up with JGM at Subaru4You for the map tweaks.
Running 10% meth, and mapped for 1.7 bar peak, it responded really well to timing. We chickened out, and stopped adding more advance, once it hit 516bhp and just short of 490 ftlb of torque
On the road, 1 bar is reached at 3000rpm, and 1.7bar just 300 rpm later - mmmm, lively
To say I'm pleased is the understatement of the decade
I cannot thank Iain Litchfield, Len and Marc at Subaru4You, and Simon enough - it's a simply awesome drive now
Hopefully that's it for a while now...well apart from, that is, a visit to Iain's next year for some more turbo tweaks
Running 10% meth, and mapped for 1.7 bar peak, it responded really well to timing. We chickened out, and stopped adding more advance, once it hit 516bhp and just short of 490 ftlb of torque
On the road, 1 bar is reached at 3000rpm, and 1.7bar just 300 rpm later - mmmm, lively
To say I'm pleased is the understatement of the decade
I cannot thank Iain Litchfield, Len and Marc at Subaru4You, and Simon enough - it's a simply awesome drive now
Hopefully that's it for a while now...well apart from, that is, a visit to Iain's next year for some more turbo tweaks
20 November 2010, 01:05 PM
#680
Scooby Regular
Cliff,
Shall I bang a LM500 Billet on my JDM 2ltr and see what it does! It would be a shame not to make use of the injectors I have.
It is tempting in the name of testing and development!
Shall I bang a LM500 Billet on my JDM 2ltr and see what it does! It would be a shame not to make use of the injectors I have.
It is tempting in the name of testing and development!
20 November 2010, 01:35 PM
#682
Scooby Regular
Rob North spanked the backside off his Tracktive OE JDM 2ltr at this level (running NOS as well as Meth).
Anyway... I like to push the boat out! Fortune favours the brave!
Anyway... I like to push the boat out! Fortune favours the brave!
20 November 2010, 01:37 PM
#683
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Why would it?
Running uk 03 sti engine with md321v at 502bhp in my daily drive and cannot break it despite trying v hard.
Would be interesting to compare to see if twinscroll worthwhile at 500hp
Running uk 03 sti engine with md321v at 502bhp in my daily drive and cannot break it despite trying v hard.
Would be interesting to compare to see if twinscroll worthwhile at 500hp
. Cant leave mine standard as I know it will go "bang"