litchfield twin scroll turbo
#811
Scooby Regular
Updated in my Project Thread mate:
APRIL 2011
Right.... we are getting there now. The Hawkeye was dropped off to Litchfields yesterday for the turbo work to be completed this coming week.
Due to the fact that I needed to get home and I wasn't going to walk the 60+ miles, Iain gave me a courtesy car to borrow. I was quite priviledged that he gave me one of the most rare and best performance cars he has......... a Subaru R2!
LM Billet
As I have insinuated previously, I was starting to waiver on actually making a decision to whether or not stick with the LM400 or move to a bigger LM450 for this part of the project.
Mel graciously offered to allow me to test drive his LM450 equipped Hawkeye Spec C, as he had organised for some work to be done at Litchfields yesterday, when I was dropping my car off. It was a perfect oppourtunity for me to have a near as damn it comparison between the two turbos.
Mel had decided to have similar chassis mods to what I have done so far in this project thread (Whiteline Anti Lift Kit, ARB's and adjustable top mounts) and the first mod of the ARB's was just about to be done. We had a chat and Mel was unsure how far to take his ARB's (24mm rear or 22mm rear). I explained the differences to him in what it would change with the handling characteristics, but it made sense for Mel to try this first hand, so he went for a spin in my Hawkeye.
Just as I experienced upon having these mods, Mel immediately felt the difference in stability and sure footedness..... he was pretty much "sold" on the benefits of these chassis mods.
Anyway.... unfortunately Litchfields ran in to a problem with their four wheel alignment rig and they were unable to complete the work. This ultimately meant that Mel had to leave the car at Litchfields and I was unable to take his car for a test drive. It was a real shame, but I suspect "him upstairs" was trying to tell me something.
Mel did comment on the fact that his car gives him move of a shove in the back, but you have to take this in context as you would expect that with a turbo that spools 5-600rpm later than what the LM400 does (the "go" with the 400 is more instant and smoother). Add to the fact that Mel's turbo is producing another 40lbft and 60bhp more.... and of course his car is some 70+kgs lighter than mine. It all adds up to make a difference "feel" wise, but I certainly expect the LM450 to make for a quicker car when you are up to boost. However it is interesting that Mel normally uses his low boost setting (which is circa 380bhp). This backs up what I have said previously, in that 400bhp is more than enough for a road car and this is exactly where the LM400 is pitched!
I went on to discuss this with Iain and we decided that since this part of the project was "all about" the LM400 in reality and keeping everything nice and driveable as much as possible, we would stick with the LM400 Billet at this stage.
Don't despair though..... the conversation and agreement has been made, that once the LM400 Billet has been tested for the purpose of this thread, I have the option to move then to the LM450 Billet if I wish. Again, the "staged" approach has been favoured to realise the benefit of some worthwhlile feedback and comparisons.
I spoke to Iain about the changes that have been introduced to make the LM400 Billet and apart from the obvious fact that the compressor wheel is made of Billet, the wheel design has also changed, it is THIRTY % lighter than the current LM400 non billet compressor wheel and Litchfields have taken the opportunity to make the overall diameter of the compressor wheel smaller.
All these area's combined will theorectically improve throttle response and initial spool.
It will be interesting to see what transpires.
Right.... we are getting there now. The Hawkeye was dropped off to Litchfields yesterday for the turbo work to be completed this coming week.
Due to the fact that I needed to get home and I wasn't going to walk the 60+ miles, Iain gave me a courtesy car to borrow. I was quite priviledged that he gave me one of the most rare and best performance cars he has......... a Subaru R2!
LM Billet
As I have insinuated previously, I was starting to waiver on actually making a decision to whether or not stick with the LM400 or move to a bigger LM450 for this part of the project.
Mel graciously offered to allow me to test drive his LM450 equipped Hawkeye Spec C, as he had organised for some work to be done at Litchfields yesterday, when I was dropping my car off. It was a perfect oppourtunity for me to have a near as damn it comparison between the two turbos.
Mel had decided to have similar chassis mods to what I have done so far in this project thread (Whiteline Anti Lift Kit, ARB's and adjustable top mounts) and the first mod of the ARB's was just about to be done. We had a chat and Mel was unsure how far to take his ARB's (24mm rear or 22mm rear). I explained the differences to him in what it would change with the handling characteristics, but it made sense for Mel to try this first hand, so he went for a spin in my Hawkeye.
Just as I experienced upon having these mods, Mel immediately felt the difference in stability and sure footedness..... he was pretty much "sold" on the benefits of these chassis mods.
Anyway.... unfortunately Litchfields ran in to a problem with their four wheel alignment rig and they were unable to complete the work. This ultimately meant that Mel had to leave the car at Litchfields and I was unable to take his car for a test drive. It was a real shame, but I suspect "him upstairs" was trying to tell me something.
Mel did comment on the fact that his car gives him move of a shove in the back, but you have to take this in context as you would expect that with a turbo that spools 5-600rpm later than what the LM400 does (the "go" with the 400 is more instant and smoother). Add to the fact that Mel's turbo is producing another 40lbft and 60bhp more.... and of course his car is some 70+kgs lighter than mine. It all adds up to make a difference "feel" wise, but I certainly expect the LM450 to make for a quicker car when you are up to boost. However it is interesting that Mel normally uses his low boost setting (which is circa 380bhp). This backs up what I have said previously, in that 400bhp is more than enough for a road car and this is exactly where the LM400 is pitched!
I went on to discuss this with Iain and we decided that since this part of the project was "all about" the LM400 in reality and keeping everything nice and driveable as much as possible, we would stick with the LM400 Billet at this stage.
Don't despair though..... the conversation and agreement has been made, that once the LM400 Billet has been tested for the purpose of this thread, I have the option to move then to the LM450 Billet if I wish. Again, the "staged" approach has been favoured to realise the benefit of some worthwhlile feedback and comparisons.
I spoke to Iain about the changes that have been introduced to make the LM400 Billet and apart from the obvious fact that the compressor wheel is made of Billet, the wheel design has also changed, it is THIRTY % lighter than the current LM400 non billet compressor wheel and Litchfields have taken the opportunity to make the overall diameter of the compressor wheel smaller.
All these area's combined will theorectically improve throttle response and initial spool.
It will be interesting to see what transpires.
#813
Scooby Regular
Yes it is isn't it. That question in specific was raised off the back of the off-line conversation you and I have had.
Spec's are just numbers though to me.... let's see how it translates when "bolted-up".
#815
Scooby Regular
Just received a text from Litchfields to say the LM400 Billet is now fitted to the Hawkeye!
It's a quick "razz" over to Litchfields first thing tomorrow and then a steady drive to Tracktive Solutions for the remap in the afternoon.
It's a quick "razz" over to Litchfields first thing tomorrow and then a steady drive to Tracktive Solutions for the remap in the afternoon.
#818
Scooby Regular
The Eagle has landed, fitted, mapped and results disected!
It was certainly worth the wait.
https://www.scoobynet.com/846290-sta...ml#post9979646
It was certainly worth the wait.
https://www.scoobynet.com/846290-sta...ml#post9979646
#820
Orange Club
iTrader: (11)
Collected my car from Iain today having had a billet wheel fitted to the LM480 (and a hole in the Milltek repaired - the second repair the system's needed in 4 years of use), and drove it to Subaru4You for mapping.
We rapidly found that the plugs were knackered, so after a delay while some were found and fitted, it went on the rollers for map tweaking by JGM.
On the second run the oem twinscroll headers shat their pants, blowing the tube from No1 clean off the cylinder head mounting flange, and damaging the flexi joint as well.
Monday will see the headers removed to see if they can be repaired, otherwise I'm either on the look out for a set of headers (oem twinscroll or something better, if they exist) or I may actually flog the LM480/uppipe/downpipe and go single scroll/321V as I'm heartily fed up of all the hassle that seems to be associated with my chosen high power twin scroll route
We rapidly found that the plugs were knackered, so after a delay while some were found and fitted, it went on the rollers for map tweaking by JGM.
On the second run the oem twinscroll headers shat their pants, blowing the tube from No1 clean off the cylinder head mounting flange, and damaging the flexi joint as well.
Monday will see the headers removed to see if they can be repaired, otherwise I'm either on the look out for a set of headers (oem twinscroll or something better, if they exist) or I may actually flog the LM480/uppipe/downpipe and go single scroll/321V as I'm heartily fed up of all the hassle that seems to be associated with my chosen high power twin scroll route
#821
Collected my car from Iain today having had a billet wheel fitted to the LM480 (and a hole in the Milltek repaired - the second repair the system's needed in 4 years of use), and drove it to Subaru4You for mapping.
We rapidly found that the plugs were knackered, so after a delay while some were found and fitted, it went on the rollers for map tweaking by JGM.
On the second run the oem twinscroll headers shat their pants, blowing the tube from No1 clean off the cylinder head mounting flange, and damaging the flexi joint as well.
Monday will see the headers removed to see if they can be repaired, otherwise I'm either on the look out for a set of headers (oem twinscroll or something better, if they exist) or I may actually flog the LM480/uppipe/downpipe and go single scroll/321V as I'm heartily fed up of all the hassle that seems to be associated with my chosen high power twin scroll route
We rapidly found that the plugs were knackered, so after a delay while some were found and fitted, it went on the rollers for map tweaking by JGM.
On the second run the oem twinscroll headers shat their pants, blowing the tube from No1 clean off the cylinder head mounting flange, and damaging the flexi joint as well.
Monday will see the headers removed to see if they can be repaired, otherwise I'm either on the look out for a set of headers (oem twinscroll or something better, if they exist) or I may actually flog the LM480/uppipe/downpipe and go single scroll/321V as I'm heartily fed up of all the hassle that seems to be associated with my chosen high power twin scroll route
#822
Scooby Regular
Tim,
I can feel your pain.
You should of stuck with 450bhp and LEFT IT ALONE!!
This has just been bad luck mate. I'm sure it will all be sorted.
I can feel your pain.
You should of stuck with 450bhp and LEFT IT ALONE!!
This has just been bad luck mate. I'm sure it will all be sorted.
#823
Orange Club
iTrader: (11)
Update - headers are off and it's simply the weld between the tube and the mounting flange that's failed. Most of the welds look pretty rubbish so I'm having them all examined and probably re-done, and the flanges checked for flatness.
Looks like my oem twinscroll headers were a Friday afternoon job
Hopefully they'll be sorted this week, then Simon can restart the map tweaking
Looks like my oem twinscroll headers were a Friday afternoon job
Hopefully they'll be sorted this week, then Simon can restart the map tweaking
#824
Update - headers are off and it's simply the weld between the tube and the mounting flange that's failed. Most of the welds look pretty rubbish so I'm having them all examined and probably re-done, and the flanges checked for flatness.
Looks like my oem twinscroll headers were a Friday afternoon job
Hopefully they'll be sorted this week, then Simon can restart the map tweaking
Looks like my oem twinscroll headers were a Friday afternoon job
Hopefully they'll be sorted this week, then Simon can restart the map tweaking
#826
Former Sponsor
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: www.Litchfieldimports.co.uk
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Immy as I explained originally the wait is for the small Drive By Wire Compressor covers (which Shaun does not need) which are currently on back order with the foundry. If it helps my demo car is sat waiting as well The cores, turbine housings and billet wheels are in stock
Sorry to here about your problems Tim. You have been very unluck with your exhaust, first time I have heard of a OEM manifold fail and to have a Milltek blow in 2 different places might be related. What are you EGTs like?
Regards
Iain
Sorry to here about your problems Tim. You have been very unluck with your exhaust, first time I have heard of a OEM manifold fail and to have a Milltek blow in 2 different places might be related. What are you EGTs like?
Regards
Iain
#827
Immy as I explained originally the wait is for the small Drive By Wire Compressor covers (which Shaun does not need) which are currently on back order with the foundry. If it helps my demo car is sat waiting as well The cores, turbine housings and billet wheels are in stock
Sorry to here about your problems Tim. You have been very unluck with your exhaust, first time I have heard of a OEM manifold fail and to have a Milltek blow in 2 different places might be related. What are you EGTs like?
Regards
Iain
Sorry to here about your problems Tim. You have been very unluck with your exhaust, first time I have heard of a OEM manifold fail and to have a Milltek blow in 2 different places might be related. What are you EGTs like?
Regards
Iain
I am quite surprised your demo is still hanging about tbh I thought it would of been snapped up by now
PS can you send me down a 3" miltek downpipe as I will need it to get this fitted before I can come down as the catback will have to be modified to mate the 3" pipe as discussed on the phone.
Immy
#830
#831
Scooby Regular
Immy,
Because I'm special!
Just to wet your appetite in anticipation of your new turbo.....
LM400 Billet vs VF37 @ 340/340 flywheel
You should achieve better spool with the Hatch Heads having exhaust VVT as well.
Because I'm special!
Just to wet your appetite in anticipation of your new turbo.....
LM400 Billet vs VF37 @ 340/340 flywheel
You should achieve better spool with the Hatch Heads having exhaust VVT as well.
#832
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: ECU Mapping - www.JollyGreenMonster.co.uk
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If the headers were to fail due to high egt I would expect them to crack in a hotter spot..
I doubt anyone has done the mileage Tim has on a set of oe twinscroll headers running 500+bhp.
Simon
#835
Scooby Regular
I bought my 450LM from litchfield one year ago. and only now i will fit it in my 06 Type RA. I will updated you about results
of course i will fit other bits like 800 injectors, miltek 76mm full exhaust, gruppeM carbon induction kit, new fuel pump. ecc (and of course a new map). I will use the stock intercooler.
I hope to see 420/430Ps at 1.6/1.7 bar.
of course i will fit other bits like 800 injectors, miltek 76mm full exhaust, gruppeM carbon induction kit, new fuel pump. ecc (and of course a new map). I will use the stock intercooler.
I hope to see 420/430Ps at 1.6/1.7 bar.
Last edited by johnny_0; 03 May 2011 at 02:45 PM.
#836
Scooby Regular
I bought my 450LM from litchfield one year ago. and only now i will fit it in my 06 Type RA. I will updated you about results
of course i will fit other bits like 800 injectors, miltek 76mm full exhaust, gruppeM carbon induction kit, new fuel pump. ecc (and of course a new map). I will use the stock intercooler.
I hope to see 420/430Ps at 1.6/1.7 bar.
of course i will fit other bits like 800 injectors, miltek 76mm full exhaust, gruppeM carbon induction kit, new fuel pump. ecc (and of course a new map). I will use the stock intercooler.
I hope to see 420/430Ps at 1.6/1.7 bar.
#837
Scooby Regular
yes, infact i hope to reach at least 430ps with good torque. In every case i'm very curious to see the final result.
Last edited by johnny_0; 03 May 2011 at 06:00 PM.
#838
Scooby Regular
I bought my 450LM from litchfield one year ago. and only now i will fit it in my 06 Type RA. I will updated you about results
of course i will fit other bits like 800 injectors, miltek 76mm full exhaust, gruppeM carbon induction kit, new fuel pump. ecc (and of course a new map). I will use the stock intercooler.
I hope to see 420/430Ps at 1.6/1.7 bar.
of course i will fit other bits like 800 injectors, miltek 76mm full exhaust, gruppeM carbon induction kit, new fuel pump. ecc (and of course a new map). I will use the stock intercooler.
I hope to see 420/430Ps at 1.6/1.7 bar.
What is your opinion about this?
thks
Last edited by johnny_0; 04 May 2011 at 08:14 PM.
#839
Scooby Regular
thks
Last edited by johnny_0; 09 May 2011 at 04:15 PM.