Black-Hawk

iTrader: (4)

But your 390lbs.ft was the daddy, aye Ty, still not convinced and as for the offer, whats a grown man like you with an s202 doing picking on a youngster with a lowely wrx?

Cannon Fodder

iTrader: (100)

What you mean is that you don't want to believe it more like Jarv , I just thought it would be a good comparison a JDM 2.0 against a UK 2.5 . Mind you an on the road comparison would be better.

And as for youngster Jarv, hmm...

Black-Hawk

iTrader: (4)

Your on the ball

Butty

iTrader: (2)

390 lbft on a TD04

Try 390 Nm which is 290 lbft

hughes741

mine is on a td04 and mine is 367lbft which is 498nm and yes it has been dyno'd

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_5d0...eature=channel

Mikkel

I have to say I am amazed and slightly sceptical at some of these figures being stated for a stage 1 WRX. But that aside, is it safe running that kind of power through the WRX 5 speed box?

Cannon Fodder

iTrader: (100)

Just goes to prove that given the right modifications, setup and mapper that it is possible for a 2.5 WRX can outperform a standard STi.

As I have stated from the beginning despite Jarvis's doubts it is possible, and Bob did state at the mapping that it would outperform a standard STi and the drivetrain ie clutch and gearbox can handle the increased torque providing that you are not brutal with the clutch engagement and gearchanges and you should know all about that Jarvis (how many rebuilds now?).

Thanks Hughes741 for your input.

bluenose172

iTrader: (2)

Anyone got a graph for one of these high torque TD04's? It's not unusual in the States to get these figures, the torque is peaky though.

Mikkel

It's not really a useful discussion to get into the old "a modified car can out perform a standard car". That's obvious to anyone.

Fact is an STi is a better spec'd base car. STi's do cost more though, so it is six and two threes which way you want to go. There is more to an STi than simple power advantage over the WRX and to get a WRX to the same level as a standard STi will cost a lot of money. So, like I said it is six and two threes.

I'd be interested to see a dyno graph of these WRX figures to see how the power is delivered in comparison with a similar torque output from a bigger bhp STi like my own.

Cannon Fodder

iTrader: (100)

I agree with you that the STi is a better car than a WRX regardless of whether it is a 2.5 or 2.0 , I traded in my modified 2.5 WRX as I came to the conclusion that with the forthcoming mods planned - FP Green STi turbo, PE 650cc flow matched injectors etc plus another remap it would never quite be enough for me. Plus of course the 2.5 WRX engine and TD04 run out of puff between 5500-5800 rpm.

I went for a JDM STi S202 which like I have stated earlier in the thread is a much better car, revs higher, pulls harder right up to 8000rpm and has better handling and suspension.

I have had a 3" bellmouth downpipe with a 100 cell sports cat fitted, just about to upgrade the panel filter to a Green filter and a further remap should see around 350-360 bhp, ok it will not have as much torque as the 2.5 but it will be a better car to drive IMHO. Of course the lighter weight of the S202 will pays dividends in the acceleration times as well.

The statement I made about a modified WRX outperforming a standard STi was not made to start a further line of posts but just to show what is possible from a 2.5 WRX.

If I had researched the differences between a WRX and STi prior to buying my first Impreza I would have without doubt gone for an STi as it would have been cheaper in the long run.

Black-Hawk

iTrader: (4)

Anyone got a rolling road print out of a wrx 2.5 td04, with an exaust/filter and re-map, i'd be intrested to see the power/torque delivery, spool up ect, here's an old one of mine with a td05-20g, its had a few tweeks and another Andy.F mapping sesion since but has'nt been on the rollers, its at powerstation btw

ssssss

wow thats got some power can the gearbox and clutch handle it
if you want to look at a rolling road print out of a wrx with td04 go on the powerstation site

Scooby_Stu_

iTrader: (12)

Here's my graph of my 06 hawkeye filter, exhaust & remap. Had a VF43 turbo fitted since and was mapped at 342 bhp & 380 lb/ft



Stuart.

Black-Hawk

iTrader: (4)

Thanks Stuart, so you got 277bhp/320lbs.ft ish from a td04 on a wrx 2.5, that sounds about right

Black-Hawk

iTrader: (4)

Hi mate, the gearbox has failed twice, the first happend following a bad gear change by myself, flat in 4th, almost at the limiter, went for 5th but got 3rd instead, second failure accured following an iffy rebuild and discoverd the nut on the main shaft had'nt been tightend correctly, its been ok now for 16mths/2500 miles, the o.e clutch was holding out ok but would slip slightly under extreme torque loads i.e 30mph in 5th and welly down, its now got an ap racing clutch that was fitted during the last rebuild and i hate to say it but its not copeing aswell as the o.e one

Black-Hawk

iTrader: (4)

Was it road mapped or mapped on the rollers? you'll usually get better figures on the RR if they're mapped on the rollers but a better car on the road if its been mapped on the road.

Scooby_Stu_

iTrader: (12)

Was road mapped by JGM

Black-Hawk

iTrader: (4)

Cannon Fodder

iTrader: (100)

I tell you what Jarvis please come with me when I get the S202 mapped in December that way you can speak to Bob directly as you then take up your 'concerns' with him one on one.

You can then no doubt point out to him how he comes up with the figures and no doubt give him the benefit of your mapping prowess.

The common factor seems to be the steering wheel to pedals interface then Jarvis?

johnfelstead

Actually, BHP does, 100% directly relate to Torque. Power is just a calculation based on the torque available at the rpm it is being measured at.

Power (BHP) = Torque (lb-ft) x rpm / 5252

Thats why on a dyno sheet that has the same scalling for torque and power the two lines always cross at 5252rpm. If they dont then the dyno plot is bogus.

MY05 JDM STI 2.0 engine has more torque in standard trim than the 2.5 STI. The 2.5WRX is a great road car basis for a remap, bang for buck they are brilliant, but you'll get more out of a JDM 2.0 with the same type of remap, as you would expect with the base car being more performance oriented.

Cannon Fodder

iTrader: (100)

What I was referring to was the fact that if you have a large amount if torque it does not equate to a similar bhp level, in terms of 100 lb ft torque does not mean 100 bhp. Of course torque has an influence in terms of the bhp calculation but it is not necessarily 1=1.

johnfelstead

It is only ever 1:1 at 5252rpm, it's a mathematical certainty. Torque has more than an influence, it is the only measurement of force taken that you then calculate the power figure from.

What you mean to say i think, is that how the engine produces it's torque will vary, you can have an engine that has lots of low rpm torque but doesn't produce as much torque as the revs increase, WRC for example, so the power figure will be relatively lower than the torque. Or you could have an engine that has very little torque capability, F1 for example, but it can rev extremely high, so the power figures are much higher than the torque because most of it's efficient work occurs at high rpm.

Black-Hawk

iTrader: (4)

You mean the squishy bit with the low I,Q

Black-Hawk

iTrader: (4)

Cheers John, never new that

53

iTrader: (41)

Tested and that's spot on

Cannon Fodder

iTrader: (100)

Come on Jarvis are you coming up to Swindon with me? I would really enjoy watching the meeting of minds and differing opinions.

As if I would ever accuse you of having a low IQ Jarvis.