On wednesday i went to API with two of my mates,one to get his car mapped AGAIN!!

Met David, seems like a nice chap showed us round the workshop a little.

When i say AGAIN, well here goes the story......

My mate who has a STI ra classic took his car there less than 3 weeks ago to have it mapped and fitted with new injectors. Having been in his car several times i can honestly say it "used to" put you in the back of your seat.

The first time he arranged a appointment he turned up on time at API only to be told that Pat ( who was mapping the car that day ) had forgotten his machine that maps to the daughter board. When i heard this i thought ok we all make mistakes, benefit of the doubt and all that but surely there would be some sort of sorry or monetary value off the map when he had it..... NO.

The next time he turned up Pat had remembered to bring the machine :luxhello: :luxhello:

So all was connected up and off David and Pat went!!!! My personal experience with Bob Rawle was that i drove the car and he mapped it how i wanted it.... which he did and i'm still smiling now.

However they were away for about 30 mins came back and gave the car to my mate saying all done all sorted etc... He paid his money and off he went. That day on the way home it was raining so he didnt give it any beans!! The following day he did and was TOTALLY dissapointed by the map given. A call to API again was met with a bring it back saturday and we'll sort it out for you. Again fair play to David etc...

My mate turns up saturday waits for 45 mins no one there...... GUTTED OR WHAT!!!! Whats going on???

Rings back Monday and gives David a round of fcks etc.... Car booked back in for this Wednesday gone..... So........

Again we get there David as i said earlier nice guy no probs......After waiting 45 mins for them to finish lunch:Whatever_ out walks Pat chocolate bar in hand and opens bonnet has a look closes bonnet.... Out go my mate and Pat in car..... they come back..Out goes David with my mate in car.....comes back

Mechanic takes off FMIC seals a couple of pipes puts new clips on ... car goes back out again...... its quicker but not as quick

David calls my mate over to Pats laptop in car after spending 15mins talking to Pat... He then shows him 2 maps that are exactly the same!! Cut and paste perhaps?????????

They then agree to take the lambda out of the exhaust and replace it..... Meantime Pat and David go out in another car to map

Lambda changed David goes out with my mate and comes back... again its quicker but not as quick......

My mate by now has been there 4 hours in that time Pat has only taken his hands out his pocket to eat!!! David hasn't apologised once for the fact this is the 4th time my mates been there and its not sorted...

In the end we drove off in disgust...So...Had enough car was still not as it was before work was done

Pat continually said it wasnt a mapping issue!!!

Car was fine when it went in so why did it need new lambda etc??? Bad mapping ? Can you map a car in 30 mins

Bob Rawle took 2 and a half hours on mine and was such a nice guy answering anything i asked

So in conclusion....... having spent 22 years in a retail environment....

Super poor customer service from David despite being a nice bloke so much so as he never said sorry or goodbye

I feel he should diss accociate himself from Pat who personally i thought was arrogant and didnt really know what he was doing......

I've had to hold my other mate back from kicking off as he was livid

On the plus side i couldnt fault Nathan who really is a top guy

I'm posting this for my mate because his internet is down currently and who will never be going back to API because of this experience

Can of worms here methinks!!

Get ya flame suit on fella :)

These things have to be said though-could save someone else the misfortune of feeling like your mate does right now.

Just a poor poor experience all round, posting for him gutted for him!!!

is that pat lean????

is that pat lean????


Lean? nah mate lol

If you feel you were unfairly treated or got a bad service then i can see no problem in posting about it. Im sure David will be along to put his side of the story over.JAY

If you feel you were unfairly treated or got a bad service then i can see no problem in posting about it. Im sure David will be along to put his side of the story over.JAY


I'm sure he will its not a problem :)

Well ive got my popcorn ready..:D

Lean? nah mate lol

is a nikname for a mapper called pat that ive heard about that likes to map thinks a bit lean sumtimes

how long before this thread gets deleted!

how long before this thread gets deleted!

It's already been moved :( not as many views in here

Just to clarify a few points before we all start slating tuning co's.

So....your mate took his car to API, had injectors fitted then mapped.

What power figures did the car produce prior to the work and what figures afterwards.

Surely an explanation was given as to why the car appeared to underperforming. :wonder:

When I had a R/R map at Powerstation, it took around 1hr on the rollers - job done.When I had a road map it took 2.5 hrs. Are you saying it took half an hour to complete the initial remap?

There is no excuse for poor customer service though....it leaves a sour taste.

Just to clarify a few points before we all start slating tuning co's.

So....your mate took his car to API, had injectors fitted then mapped.

What power figures did the car produce prior to the work and what figures afterwards.

Surely an explanation was given as to why the car appeared to underperforming. :wonder:

When I had a R/R map at Powerstation, it took around 1hr on the rollers - job done.When I had a road map it took 2.5 hrs. Are you saying it took half an hour to complete the initial remap?

There is no excuse for poor customer service though....it leaves a sour taste.

Not slating just pointing out our experience im sure he does alot of good work but on this occasion he didnt

No explanation as to why down on power

Yes 30 mins for the map

sounds a tad unprofessional

sounds a tad unprofessional

I take it Pat works for David??

I take it Pat works for David??

have not got a clue bud i am just commenting on your post, but i do know if a member of my staff was going on like that they would be on the receiving end of the biggest bollocking of there lives, big pet hate of mine is speaking to customers while eating, and the rest of the service sounds ****e also. fair play to you leaving the post but i kind of think David is looked upon as the son of god in here and any bad words against him or his company is severely frowned upon, to be fair i have only ever dealt with david via phone and email and he has been mint, maybe just having a bad day
Best of luck

well il be honest on this one. ive only ever had one dealing with a.p.i. and that was early this year when my gearbox went in the old scoob.

i called david up and spoke about my options and what money i had. honestly the guy was spot on in both customer service, relaibilty, and a thorough explanation of what was to be carried out.

i personally chose to have the gearbox fitted elsewhere simply for distance related issues, again david was fine with this and shipped the 'box on a pallet to my chosen garage.

genuinely havent a bad word to say about david and the guys at api. i have heard stories and tales about pat being lethargic in his approach, but again, having never used his services im going off what others have said.

that said however, if i was treated poorly or the customer service was lacking, from any company what so ever, i would generally approach them with regards to my concerns instead of commenting on a "lynch mob" forum such as this.

Never had any problems with David myself. He seems to be very helpful on the phone.

However i have heard enough horror stories regarding Pats mapping... enough to say i wouldnt let him near my car.

However, there are 2 sides to every story so im not going to judge one way or the other at the moment but im glad things like this are posted. Its always to easy to sing praise of the "holy" mappers even when youre not 100% happy.

Hope you get it resolved :thumb:

i think with a company that deals with so many peopke thru the year they cant get it 100% right (not saying its right to do so ) i phoned api to talk about engines and i found them a waste of time but thats just anoutha convo lol , personaly mate i would get your mate to get his money back , as he asked them to do a job to his standard and they didnt do it !!!! so i do believe he is within his rights to a full refund if not just involve trading standards .and its regardless on how may people think there the best company for subarus in the world they wasnt for your friend and thats not right.

well guy's i've been up to api over the last 3 months spent in excess of £5000 on various engine upgrades and the service was outstanding:thumb: as for pat he has mapped my car 3 times now and every time it has got better and better tbh the last map tweek i needed for the fmic and 3" exhaust dave took me in my car with pat to show me what they did excellent experiance must have been in the car for a good hour.As for after sales service another top job, had external oil cooler fitted and timing belt service ,oil pump finished my car about 6pm anyway when i finally got home bear in mind i live in south wales had a look under the car little drizzle of oil running down the unions from oil sandwich plate phoned the next day told dave about prob told me to bring it back we will sort this out straight away hhhmmmm travel back up again ,cut a long story short
couldn't do enough for me,stopped working on some body's car to get mine done plus gave me the petrol money for the round trip which was well over for what i needed.:notworthy
The only bad thing that needs sorting from what i can see is they need a settee to relax on when waiting many hours for the work to be finished on customers cars:thumb:
cheers
marc

Never had any problems with David myself. He seems to be very helpful on the phone.

However i have heard enough horror stories regarding Pats mapping... enough to say i wouldnt let him near my car.

However, there are 2 sides to every story so im not going to judge one way or the other at the moment but im glad things like this are posted. Its always to easy to sing praise of the "holy" mappers even when youre not 100% happy.

Hope you get it resolved :thumb:


Like i said in original post Pat refused to map the car again strange:Suspiciou :Suspiciou

well il be honest on this one. ive only ever had one dealing with a.p.i. and that was early this year when my gearbox went in the old scoob.

i called david up and spoke about my options and what money i had. honestly the guy was spot on in both customer service, relaibilty, and a thorough explanation of what was to be carried out.

i personally chose to have the gearbox fitted elsewhere simply for distance related issues, again david was fine with this and shipped the 'box on a pallet to my chosen garage.

genuinely havent a bad word to say about david and the guys at api. i have heard stories and tales about pat being lethargic in his approach, but again, having never used his services im going off what others have said.

that said however, if i was treated poorly or the customer service was lacking, from any company what so ever, i would generally approach them with regards to my concerns instead of commenting on a "lynch mob" forum such as this.


Thats fair comment but theyve had the chance to sort on 4 occasions once they weren't there once Pat forgot a piece of equipment

i think with a company that deals with so many peopke thru the year they cant get it 100% right (not saying its right to do so ) i phoned api to talk about engines and i found them a waste of time but thats just anoutha convo lol , personaly mate i would get your mate to get his money back , as he asked them to do a job to his standard and they didnt do it !!!! so i do believe he is within his rights to a full refund if not just involve trading standards .and its regardless on how may people think there the best company for subarus in the world they wasnt for your friend and thats not right.

But ive since found out that Pat works for David re mapping so who's fault is it???

well guy's i've been up to api over the last 3 months spent in excess of £5000 on various engine upgrades and the service was outstanding:thumb: as for pat he has mapped my car 3 times now and every time it has got better and better tbh the last map tweek i needed for the fmic and 3" exhaust dave took me in my car with pat to show me what they did excellent experiance must have been in the car for a good hour.As for after sales service another top job, had external oil cooler fitted and timing belt service ,oil pump finished my car about 6pm anyway when i finally got home bear in mind i live in south wales had a look under the car little drizzle of oil running down the unions from oil sandwich plate phoned the next day told dave about prob told me to bring it back we will sort this out straight away hhhmmmm travel back up again ,cut a long story short
couldn't do enough for me,stopped working on some body's car to get mine done plus gave me the petrol money for the round trip which was well over for what i needed.:notworthy
The only bad thing that needs sorting from what i can see is they need a settee to relax on when waiting many hours for the work to be finished on customers cars:thumb:
cheers
marc

Fair comment as i said im sure he does alot of good work but in this instance he didnt

Shame he wasnt forthcoming with refund on petrol for when

1. They failed to turn up on a saturday:cuckoo: :cuckoo:
2. Pat forgot essential equipment:cuckoo: :cuckoo:

The person concerned really needs to give David a call: one thing everyone is not disputing on here is that he is a genuinely nice guy and will be most upset if someone isn't happy with their car. He will endeavor to put it right!

There isn't much he can do via SN if the person concerned isn't on here.

I have had no dealings with Pat, so can't comment; Bob Rawle maps my car. However, I can say without a shadow of doubt that APi are A1 on the basis of numerous dealings with them.

Ns04

i have only bought a clutch from api but david was spot on-get your friend to give him a ring to sort it out-amicably if possible
martin

Just to clarify the situation :

On the first visit I was told I was mapping a PowerFC not a Scooby ECU. I had the kit to do the PowerFC, but since I no longer offer Scooby ECU mapping for new customers, I don't carry that kit any more. Had I been told that it was a Scooby ECU, I would have had the kit with me.

On the second visit I did have the kit with me, and we proceeded to ADJUST THE EXISTING MAP for the larger injectors. The only change was from 380cc to 440cc injectors. This does not require a new ignition map. It does not require a new boost control map. It does not require a new fuel correction map.

What it does do, however, is alter the perceived engine load, so whereas previously atmospheric pressure might read 38 load, after the change, it would read 33, and hence run too much ignition. It was necessary to import the existing map data, scaled accordingly to fit the new load function.The maps that the OWNER of the car were shown illustrated that AT THE SAME OPERATING POINT, the fuelling, ignition and boost control were THE SAME, but the maps themselves were NOT.

I therefore concluded that since the engine control HAS NOT CHANGED, it is not a mapping issue, but that it is most likely a mechanical problem. That lies beyond my remit, I adjust ECUs, I don't build engines, fit clutches etc, I MAP ECUs... mechanical issues are the responsibility of the Specialist I am subcontracted to, in this case API Engines. I do, however, provide an opinion on where I believe any problems to lie, so that such Specialists may more quickly resolve the problem.

Regards,

Pat.

There you go :thumb: .
A well thought out and measured response to the OP which gives both sides to the story. This is how issues like this should be sorted :thumb:

Not a happy situation this, we have not performed well here and as always there are 2 sides to every story. l'll add my answers & comments and then that will be that. I will not get into a ' he said - you said ' situation.

On wednesday i went to API with two of my mates,one to get his car mapped AGAIN!!

Met David, seems like a nice chap showed us round the workshop a little. A lot actually

When i say AGAIN, well here goes the story......

My mate who has a STI ra classic took his car there less than 3 weeks ago to have it mapped and fitted with new injectors. Having been in his car several times i can honestly say it "used to" put you in the back of your seat.

The first time he arranged a appointment he turned up on time at API only to be told that Pat ( who was mapping the car that day ) had forgotten his machine that maps to the daughter board. When i heard this i thought ok we all make mistakes, benefit of the doubt and all that but surely there would be some sort of sorry or monetary value off the map when he had it..... NO. NOT TRUE

Pat didn't forget his mapping equipment I mistakenly ' remembered ' this car as having an A'Pexi fitted, when in fact it has a 'Scooby Ecu ' which is a different set of gear and Pat only brings that when necessary. You probably all know how much gear these travelling mappers carry around with them and some kit only gets brought out when necessary. My fault entirely, l didn't tell Pat what to expect when he got here. In fact at the point we discovered I had mis-informed Pat, we had fitted a set of 440cc injectors which was the original job. The only way - being unable to map the car - to rescue the situation temporarliy was to supply and fit free of charge a fuel pressure regulator and turn the pressure down so that the 440's behave more like the 380's it had been mapped with

The next time he turned up Pat had remembered to bring the machine :luxhello: :luxhello: No comment

So all was connected up and off David and Pat went!!!! My personal experience with Bob Rawle was that i drove the car and he mapped it how i wanted it.... which he did and i'm still smiling now.

However they were away for about 30 mins came back and gave the car to my mate saying all done all sorted etc... He paid his money and off he went. That day on the way home it was raining so he didnt give it any beans!! The following day he did and was TOTALLY dissapointed by the map given. A call to API again was met with a bring it back saturday and we'll sort it out for you. Again fair play to David etc... It did have some beans, so to speak, as we heard it on full chat going down the straightaway when he left here - we all chuckled as that is not unusual.

My mate turns up saturday waits for 45 mins no one there...... GUTTED OR WHAT!!!! Whats going on??? The duty member of staff was unable to get in due to a family problem and I was uncontactable, being away elsewhere. Very regrettable, I did say that I would make it up on Wednesday.

Rings back Monday and gives David a round of fcks etc.... Car booked back in for this Wednesday gone..... So........

Again we get there David as i said earlier nice guy no probs......After waiting 45 mins for them to finish lunch:Whatever_ If I tell you to be here for 1 pm and you arrive at 12.15 ....... out walks Pat chocolate bar in hand and opens bonnet has a look closes bonnet.... Out go my mate and Pat in car..... they come back..Out goes David with my mate in car.....comes back Not me, Nathan first time. We looked for mechanical cause, as the car did not drive like it did the previous Wednesday after Pat and l had remapped the injector duty. Maps don't move, or change - so it must be mechanical.

Off comes the FMIC plumbing looking for a wastegate pipe off, boost control pipes off Blah Blah. One of the pipes to the PCV valve from the crankcase vent is off and venting to atmosphere. No way of knowing when it came off or whether it has been off all the time, but there is a likely cause. Put it all back together and road test. MUCH better but still not as quick as it was left the previous Wednesday.

A confusing factor in all of this is that the car: STi Vers 2 RA V limited standard engine, had a rolling road test some weeks ago and apparently had 350 odd horsepower !! On the 380 cc injectors ? I think not. But in any case the 380's were running maxxed out, which is never good. 440's were recommended & fitted to get the injector duty back to a sensible 90% or so. So a comparison to before and after is all about feel, as we all [ owner included ] discount the original rolling road test result as spurious.

Mechanic takes off FMIC seals a couple of pipes puts new clips on ... car goes back out again...... its quicker but not as quick See above

David calls my mate over to Pats laptop in car after spending 15mins talking to Pat... He then shows him 2 maps that are exactly the same!! Cut and paste perhaps????????? That's offensive and I won't even bother to respond to it.

They then agree to take the lambda out of the exhaust and replace it..... Meantime Pat and David go out in another car to map The oxy sensor, by the owners own admission has not been working properly for some time. His AFR gauge on the dash tells you that. But as it only really comes in to play on cruise, it isn't really an issue for full power. BUT in conversation with Pat & I he admits to it only vere getting 180 or so to a tankful. It ought to be more like 240 as a ballpark. But driving conditons, journey length etc. confuse that, BUT even so 180 is poor. A new Oxy will fix that. So we fit a new one Free of charge as gesture of goodwill. Instannt AFR tarcking on the gizmo on the dash. A Problem cured.

Lambda changed David goes out with my mate and comes back... again its quicker but not as quick......

My mate by now has been there 4 hours in that time Pat has only taken his hands out his pocket to eat!!! David hasn't apologised once for the fact this is the 4th time my mates been there and its not sorted... Offensive again and not true, I apologised before and also discussed a number of times with Phil the owner the complexity of the problem and it is difficult to map a car with your hands in your pockets.

In the end we drove off in disgust...So...Had enough car was still not as it was before work was done

Pat continually said it wasnt a mapping issue!!! There is nothing changed in the original map for boost it was targetted at 1.12 bar and is making 1.12 bar. The Map sensor will not allow more. The injector duty has changed sure and we managed to get a small amount more timing into the car. But as far as being right or wrong there is nothing substantially wrong with the map in comparison to the original map. The mapping session, which appears to have been criticised obliquely here, of the previous week was not long, as it only takes so long to reset injector duty, and check wide band settings etc etc.

Car was fine when it went in so why did it need new lambda etc??? Bad mapping ? Can you map a car in 30 mins This is spurious, The lambda was NOT FINE> The owner admitted that the lambda setting had been off for a while as all his red and green lights had stopped tracking some while back. If that ain't a failed / failing lamda I'm a Chinaman. 180 to a tankful ?? Go check the lamda.

Bob Rawle took 2 and a half hours on mine and was such a nice guy answering anything i asked From a standstill even Bob would not take 2.5 hours to map anything and all we were doing was adjusting a fuel map.

So in conclusion....... having spent 22 years in a retail environment....

Super poor customer service from David despite being a nice bloke so much so as he never said sorry or goodbye So giving the customer 250 quids worth of freebies as a goodwill gesture is poor customer service.?? This particular customer has said in the past that he cannot fault APi for customer service. He has been well looked after here.

Are we not allowed one poor job ? Surely it must be considered as unusual rather never coming here again.

And I was in and out mapping cars and made sure that all was in hand whilst I was away. Difficult to say goodbye when you are not actually on the premises

I feel he should diss accociate himself from Pat who personally i thought was arrogant and didnt really know what he was doing...... l'll make my own decisions about who I use and how and when AND as you haven't actually had an experience of the abilities of PAT [ Not being the owner of the car in question ] I think you should keep your thoughts to yourself. Pat maps for many of us specialists all over the country and is currently mapping 3 leading time attack cars - not something that happens by accident.

I've had to hold my other mate back from kicking off as he was livid If he was livid why not thrash it out here man to man instead of trial by forum ??

On the plus side i couldnt fault Nathan who really is a top guy

I'm posting this for my mate because his internet is down currently and who will never be going back to API because of this experience

Not a happy situation this, we have not performed well here and as always there are 2 sides to every story. l'll add my answers & comments and then that will be that. I will not get into a ' he said - you said ' situation.

So basically, the only real culpable mistakes APi have made was David mis-remembering the type of ECU being mapped in the first instance, and a subsequent staff shortage (which can happen to any company, but call it a mistake if you will) for which he apologized and the owner has got a free fuel pressure regulator and a free 02 sensor for his troubles??

Not too shabby if you ask me!!

Ns04

PS 350bhp on 380 injectors: pull the other one, it plays Jingle Bells! :D