Forester XT owner

I have a 2005 Forester XT ( my first ever Subaru ) with 5 speed manual transmission. I have owned it for over 5 months and now it has recently started making a whining noise whilst driving.


Love the car but the noise is rather annoying me. We can hardly hear it with the stereo on but the noise is obviously telling me that something is not right and needs attention


The noise seems to be at its loudest just above the Centre Tunnel. I have tried to record the sound with the camera resting just behind the hand brake. maximum speed was 40 MPH ( speed limit and traffic ) but the higher the speed, the louder the whining noise.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGER...ature=youtu.be



The whining noise starts after a few minutes of driving probably when things have started to get hot and is speed related, not RPM related.


Whilst cruising I have tried depressing the clutch then free wheeling. The noise is the same whether under driving load or whether freewheeling at adle ( @ 700 revs ). The noise stops when the vehicle stops moving.


I noticed that when freewheeling the forester will freewheel for miles even on the flat so I don't think that the problem is caused by the wheel bearings or the brakes binding.



Is this a common fault with the Subaru AWD system?.



Is it an easy fix or is it likely to be very expensive?.





Thank You

Raptorman

iTrader: (1)

I don't know myself and someone should be along to
point you in the right direction but you might try
posting it on the subaruforester.org site, the guys there
know everything about foresters and are really
friendly.

Forester XT owner

Thanks for the quick reply Raptorman.



I will also ask the question on that forum.

Don Clark

Sounds like classic syptoms of the transfer box bearings on the way out.

Happened to my Forester XT.

Bearing replaced, by just removing the transfer case extension/centre diff

Best way to diagnose is to get the car on a four point lift with someone in it to run the engine and put it in gear.


Bearings shown here, although the UK cars have an oil pump as well



Although for an older model is very similar...................

http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulle...ce-them-46979/

Forester XT owner

Thanks for the Reply.

Don Clark

We all reside in the European section on SubaruForester.org

Forester XT owner

That is good to know.


I thought it best to ask the question on a number of Subaru forums to get the best chance of a reply.


Apparently I forgot to make the Youtube video public but have now sorted that small hiccup.



Thanks

Sad Weevil

iTrader: (1)

A similar noise on my '98 Forester turned out to be a rear wheel bearing. It was difficult to pinpoint where the noise was coming from.

Forester XT owner

It is so difficult to diagnose just where the noise is coming from when you are driving the car but it sounds like the noise is loudest from around the tunnel.


Sad Weevil, Did your Forester free wheel easily or did you feel as though there was some drag?.


My forester seems to free wheel really easily for quite a distance that is why I didn't think it could be the wheel bearings but will have to try to check them just to make sure.


Would it be an easy job to check the wheel bearings myself and what would be involved please?.


I have four Axle Stands and a good trolley jack available


Thanks

Sad Weevil

iTrader: (1)

Just to say, wheel bearing is only one of many possible causes, and they can go on Foresters at around 80000 miles and up. Didn't notice any binding or drag on mine, but I never freewheel anyway. Get each wheel off the ground in turn and check for any play by trying to wobble the wheel. Remove the wheel and turn the hub to feel for any roughness. It may well be worth doing this before investigating the transfer box bearings as it's easy.

Forester XT owner

Sad Weevil.


I only tried free wheeling the Forester to see whether the noise stopped when the clutch was depressed or released but it didn't.

I was surprised how well it free wheeled.


Will try this before going any further.


Thanks Again.

Forester XT owner

I have just jacked up the rear of the Forester after chocking the front wheels.


With the forester in neutral and handbrake off there is no noticeable wobble in either of the rear wheels but they are quite difficult to turn by hand.

Should I be able to turn the wheels quite easily or should they be quite stiff?.


I imagine that if I take the wheels off and try to turn the hubs then it will be even more difficult to turn the hub being a much smaller diameter than the 17" wheels with 215/55/17 tyres on.


Thanks

Forester XT owner

Removed a rear wheel then just as I thought, I could barely get the hub to rotate as it was too tight.



Then tried the same exercise with the front wheels and both front hubs turn freely and easily, also checked and there was no wobble on the front wheels either.

The front hubs are making some noise as they spin but that could be down to the brake discs / pad clearance.

I would have thought that the rear hubs would also have spun more easily but perhaps the rear diff or the rear brakes are binding.


My question now is to find out why the rear wheels and hubs are so difficult to turn compared to the front.


The Rear Diff oil was recently changed to Motul 300 Gear 75/90.


Do these symptoms point to possible rear wheel bearing problems?.


Thanks

JDM_Stig

iTrader: (3)

was the handbrake still on ?

Forester XT owner

Good Question.


The handbrake was off, the gear stick was in neutral and my son was depressing the clutch at the time.


The rear hubs will move albeit very slowly and it takes a lot of effort to move them either with one wheel off the ground or both wheels off the ground.


The front hubs rotate easily and spin freely for quite a few revolutions. They are making a noise but could this be a little brake binding or the hubs bearings?.










Should the rear wheels spin this freely also?.



Thanks

Sad Weevil

iTrader: (1)

You may have the usual Subaru problem of seized or partially seized rear brake calipers. I service the brakes regularly on my 2 Subarus, take them apart, clean them,make sure the slider pins are free and lubricated and the pads are sitting in the caliper with free movement. A fubared wheel bearing won't produce this symptom, just noise and then vibration.
A worn wheel bearing was just a suggestion, best to eliminate this and brakes before moving on to transmission.

Don Clark

If the rear hubs are that hard to rotate then, then the whole of the rear braking system needs checking out.

Rear pads not seized and caliper floating pins clean and free and that the handbrake shoes are correctly adjusted and free from crud.

Forester XT owner

Will check out the rear brakes when I get chance.


Thanks

Forester XT owner

Update.


During my lunch break I have jacked and propped up the Forester and removed the wheels

I then removed the brake calipers and brake discs from both sides so that there should be no resistance from the brakes.


Removing the brakes seems to have made no difference.


The hubs were still very difficult to turn even with the brakes removed. I then fitted one wheel back on to increase leverage for turning but even then it is still difficult to turn the hubs.


The hub turns freely for a short circumference ( with or without brakes removed )which is probably due to the free play in the transmission then they become very difficult to turn.









Does this look like a wheel bearing problem or could there be a problem with the rear differential or even the centre differential, could that also make the hubs difficult to rotate?.


Reassembled everything and now back to work.



Would it be an idea to disconnect the rear of the centre driveshaft, where it connects to the rear differential and see whether that makes a difference.

If the hubs turn with the same amount of difficulty without the drive shaft connected would that point to the rear diff being the problem?.

If after disconnecting the centre driveshaft the wheels turned much more freely would that point to the centre diff as being the problem?.



Thanks

Don Clark

You do realise there are a set of brake shoes inside the rear hubs for the hand brake ???

Forester XT owner

Don.


Thanks for pointing that out and posting the information.

Didn't have much time on my lunch break so I will strip it down and have a look when I get chance.


One question that is confusing me is that if the handbrake wasn't releasing properly would the hubs turn at all?. The hubs turn freely for say a sixth of a turn then seems to go very tight as shown in the youtube video.


Please forgive my ignorance as this is my first Subaru and I am learning ( slowly ) thanks to the help from fellow Subaru owners on this and other forums.



Thanks

Forester XT owner

Managed to get the drivers side off using method 1 ( the adjuster ).


Passenger side is a different story. The adjuster is seized solid apparently.

Now trying method 2 with the 8mm bolts but the shoes / springs etc.. are all coming off with the assembly. Is that right?.

Don Clark

Sounds as if you handbrake shoes were adjusted too tightly.

Overtime the drum wears leaving a lip, which if you cannot wind back the shoes with the adjuster, catches them when trying to remove the drum and pulls the shoes etc off with it.

Unfortunately not always possible to remove without doing some damage to the shoes/retaining spring items etc.

Full parts list here (Destination code : EK for the UK)

http://opposedforces.com/parts/fores...llustration_3/


The tightening effect is probably due to some ovality in the drum or as the passenger side is worse , then crud and muck from the road as the nearside spends more time in and out of puddles :-)

Forester XT owner

Thanks Don.


Had to give up tonight as it became too dark.


Hope to have another go at the passenger side tomorrow lunch time then after work.

Forester XT owner

Finally managed to get the passenger rear side rotor off after way too much effort compared with the drivers side.


The brake shoes and springs etc came off with it along with one section of the lug nut retaining ring which was found in the bottom of the rotor. The section had fractured into 2 pieces and looked like it had fractured some time ago as the fractures look old.


Am I better off buying two new sets of brake shoes and fitting kits or just one.

The drivers side seemed OK but the passenger side ones are damaged caused by removing the brake disc / rotor.


The inside face of the passenger side rotor that contact the brake shoes has a ridge on the edge.

Would it be worth replacing both rotors and brake pads too while I have access to them.


With the brake pads, rotors and hand brake shoes removed is it possible to test the wheel bearings?.



Thanks.

Don Clark

Not sure what you mean by "lug nut retaining ring" - do you mean ABS tone ring that attaches to the back of the hub??

item 7 here...



http://opposedforces.com/parts/fores...llustration_1/

To renew it you will need to pull the hub



http://opposedforces.com/parts/fores...llustration_1/


Would think that whilst they are apart it may be worth renewing all, relevant parts, although may prove expensive.

Forester XT owner

Item 7, yes that is the one. " ABS tone ring ".



Looks like the broken section has been missing for quite a while looking at the fracture points.

Would having a section missing from the ABS tone ring have affected the car in any way?.


If I need to remove the hub in order to replace the ABS tone ring then it might be an idea have a new bearing fitted whilst the hub is off.


What do you recommend please?.


Thanks

Don Clark

it's possible that in removing the hub you will disturb the bearing, so probably best to go the whole hog and replace bearing/seals at the same time.

Bearing will need pressing out so requires the housing to be removed

Relevant driveshaft section of manual available here....

http://subaru-car.ru/for4/for4_chas_6.pdf

Forester XT owner

When removing the near side rear brake rotor the brake shoes and fittings came off with the rotor.


The rotor had a groove on the outside edge that the shoes would not pass.


As it was so difficult to remove this rotor and extra force was used, some items were damaged.


A section of the ABS Tone Ring fell out and the flat plate with forked ends and a spring on it snapped.


I will be replacing the Discs, Pads and Shoes with fitting kit.


Could someone let me know the Subaru Part Numbers for the following items please?.


1. From post # 20- item 6 on the diagram, the flat plate with forked ends and spring that separates the shoe frames.

2. The ABS Tone Ring.



I notice that in the USA they sell rear hubs complete with bearings ready fitted for the Forester.


Are these available in the UK by any chance?



Thank You

Don Clark

parts list link in post #23

Tone Ring item 7 - partslist link posted below diagram in post #26