Driving DynamicsDriving techniques (trail braking, power slides, donuts, scandinavian flicks, etc), and vehicle dynamics (roll centres, c/g weigh transfer, etc)
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my range rover and my hilux surf were not perm 4wd, they had open center diff and sent all drive to wheel with least traction. only if the center diff was locked did they apply equal power to front and back axles but only on soft surfaces or the transmssion would wind up.
So so lads,
Different names for 4wd/awd is nothing to argue about.
Toyota called both the corolla touring and hilux, landcruiser 4wd.
LR calls both freeelander and defender 4wd.
Audi calls both haldex equipped and torsen equipped cars quattro.I'm sure there's definitions for every term, but the manufacturers don't care, they just want to sell cars.
i would like to get my hands on some wrc spec snow/ice tyres bet yuou could have alot of fun this time of year they dont seem to have trouble stopping or going round corners do they
I found mine was also not very grippy in the snow/ice and although it's not a model with DCCD I was amazed how well it handled when the back kicks out. I provoked it many times on a private road when it snowed and it was extremely balanced and perfectly controllable (this is with road tyres too).
Having owned a RWD BMW 318is in the past, the Impreza was so much more fun when the roads are slippy.
my range rover and my hilux surf were not perm 4wd, they had open center diff and sent all drive to wheel with least traction. only if the center diff was locked did they apply equal power to front and back axles but only on soft surfaces or the transmssion would wind up.
WTF?
ALL RR's left the factory as 4 permanent 4WD.
Then you say they had an open centre diff, while temp 4WD cars rarely have a centre diff but act as locked when 4WD is engaged - so do you actually have a clue what your on about or not - let me guess - or not!
How anyone can call a scoob hopeless in the snow is beyond me. I've been everywhere i wanted and didnt need to go all last week. I drove up a 30% hill last night with 2 inches of snow on the ground using worn, cheapo, sh1t tyres. Its stopping thats the problem but not when you pull the ABS fuse.
I know it's been said over and over now but..... it really is all about the tyres!!!! Give either a set of Bridgestone Blizzak ws-50's or the someone mentioned above Alpins a shot. You should have no problems, and even a good bit of fun driving in the snow after that.
Just keep a set of extra wheels for the winter, (as narrow as will clear the brake caliper the better). When the snow comes,on they go and off you go!!! I've always thought Subies to be pretty impressive in the snow.
And for those with DCCD locked 50/50 split is the way to go in the deep stuff
There's a place become available on our Rockingham Skid/wet grip day if anyone wants some professional tuition about how to control your car in extreme low grip scenarios..
The unfortunate irony of it is, that one of the guy's totalled his scoob in the snow earlier this week and therefore can't make the day. A day which may have given him the ability/experience to have prevented it..!
oposite lock is the name of the game lol just watch out for posts an curbs. also dccd makes driving in the snow far more stable even taking off an cornering. great fun
I've noticed nobody has suggested using low range in this post I use it all the time very helpfull in this weather
The Impreza was in the garage most of the last few weeks and our Forester was used for everything. Low gears were great for creeping along on, but also perked up acceleration on open roads.
Also found out what weather the OEM Geolanders were meant for. They are a entertaining/downright dangerous in warmer weather.
O crap. I just bought my first Scooby today (04 WRX) because my Vectra GSi wasn't particularly good in the snow. Thought the 4wd would be better, but now I'm not so sure (okay it's AWD not 4wd which is different according to the last thread I read).
Planning to fit Uniroyal Rainsport 2's as the last shop to fit my Toyo T1-R's (to the Vectra) raved about them, and a few other people have in other threads too. I think the worst of the winter is over now so I'll review my choice next year if/when we have more snow. Should I fit 18" Superleggera's or stick with the standard 17's?
Gdaines, just read the bl_oody thread.
Uniroyal rainsport are 1; summertyres. And 2; cheap tyres. You always get what you pay for in tyres.
wintertyres are not a waste of money.
Use smallest possible rims (cheaper rims, cheaper tyres) and atleast 1 cm narrower tyres than OE.
Hans Martin: Yeah! I wanna live in telemarken too! But of course it's too far from work
[quote=Adam K;8511455]Gdaines, just read the bl_oody thread.
Uniroyal rainsport are 1; summertyres. And 2; cheap tyres. You always get what you pay for in tyres.
wintertyres are not a waste of money.
Use smallest possible rims (cheaper rims, cheaper tyres) and atleast 1 cm narrower tyres than OE.
Adam. Thanks for the pleasant welcome to the forums. I look forward to more of your kind supportive words of advice.
Just to recap, I never said winter tyres were a waste of money. I did, however, say that as all the snow has gone and we're unlikely to have any more in the UK, I am happy to fit something generally agreed to be good in the wet, and think about proper winter tyres if and when we have some snow next year. As for them being cheap tyres, well you can spend as much as you like on yours as it's your money, but personally I'd rather fit something less expensive when a lot of people have good things to say about them. If they turn out not to be very good, then I'll fit something different the next time (or take them off and sell them if they're really that bad).
Look at that, a whole reply without having to swear. Now, where's that ABC Reading For Beginners book that I was planning to start
Well, I, and many more, have written miles about why winter tyres are a good idea in northern europe (incl. UK), snow or no snow.
Most important, below 10-5 deg celcius summer tyres get too hard to get good grip. It doesn't have to be snow or ice around to justify proper winter tyres.
If you're thinking of buying rain tyres for the winter season then it's much better to buy some european winter tyres, they are made primary for wet roads, which is what you aim for, quite reasonable , but also for wet roads in colder conditions, down to freezing, and they have atleast a chance in the snow.
Fit them on the oe 17"s and get yourself some cool looking summer rims for that season (or the cheap way of course, summer tyres on oe 17" and winter on 15/16 2nd hand rims.)
Location: JGM made it quick, I ought to clean it !
Posts: 9,349
Yep my car always crashes itself below 10 degrees !
But seriously, being a competant driver is about compensating for adverse conditions, I drive a mini-bus for dis-advantaged kids, I haven't had any serious issues through all the recent snow/ice/thaw.
The U.K. doesn't warrant "snow" tyres for 19 out of twenty years, and yes I am old enough to remember snow back when 155 was a wide tyre !
FFS! How many times do we have to say "WINTER TYRES ARE NOT SNOW TYRES".
Dunx, if you are responsible for driving kids around, you should really take this seriously and get off your high horse thinking you're the best driver in the world and don't need anything to help you! Nobody is perfect, we all make mistakes!
gdaines, I'm sure Adam K didn't mean any offence, but it can be quite annoying with some of the stupid, ill informed comments that get posted regarding winter tyres! Adam is 100% spot on in what he said, so if you want some tyre advice, get yourself a set of winter tyres on the OEM wheel, then get yourself some 18" rims and fit a decent set of summer tyres to fit at the end of March / early April!
AWD as in 4 driven wheels doesn't mean you have more grip....all it gives is more driven wheels.....if all those wheels have no grip, then it doesn't matter if they are driven or not, the car will be out of control, slide, spin or get stuck, just like a 2wd car.
The only thing is it does give you is more chance of maintaining traction should one or two wheels (or three if you have a rear LSD - scoobs do) should lose grip, so there is less chance of becoming stuck. Thats all.
That's not quite true. It's close.
in an AWD vehicle, the engine torque is divided by 4 wheels. So, at any given moment while accelerating, there is less torque going to any given wheel than if it was a 2WD car, and thus there is less chance of a wheel loosing traction in the first place. Still pretty much irrelevant while braking though
anyhoo: erm, thats what I said anyway (last paragraph):
"The only thing is it does give you is more chance of maintaining traction should one or two wheels (or three if you have a rear LSD - scoobs do) should lose grip"
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anyhoo: erm, thats what I said anyway (last paragraph):
"The only thing is it does give you is more chance of maintaining traction should one or two wheels (or three if you have a rear LSD - scoobs do) should lose grip"
well yes of course that's true, but not quite my point. What I was trying to explain is that because the torque is divided by 4 wheels instead of two there's less chance of a wheel losing traction in the first place (even with no LSD) as there's less torque driving each wheel. Obviously with no LSDs it would still happen at some point, but the threshold would be higher in terms of road conditions.
To maintain traction, you have to assume there is traction in the first place. AWD without traction won't get anywhere.
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- I'm a paranoid schizophrenic with surround sound speakers. I hooked my mobile phone to a megaphone to my headphone and I'm still alone. And I'd like to talk to you right now but it's me on the other line. I'll call you back when the weather man on the news gives me the sign.
- I'm a xenophobic tapinophobe and a claustrophobic agoraphobe. And I'd like to talk to you right now, but it's me on my other mind. I'll call you back when the spaceship lands in 1949.
- I'm a bipedal omnivoric semi-simian, who is always mating and I'm chewing up the whole planet, and I'm procreating. And I'd like to talk to you right now, but it's time to procreate. I'll call you back when my head's cut off, but of course that will be too late.
__________________
- I'm a paranoid schizophrenic with surround sound speakers. I hooked my mobile phone to a megaphone to my headphone and I'm still alone. And I'd like to talk to you right now but it's me on the other line. I'll call you back when the weather man on the news gives me the sign.
- I'm a xenophobic tapinophobe and a claustrophobic agoraphobe. And I'd like to talk to you right now, but it's me on my other mind. I'll call you back when the spaceship lands in 1949.
- I'm a bipedal omnivoric semi-simian, who is always mating and I'm chewing up the whole planet, and I'm procreating. And I'd like to talk to you right now, but it's time to procreate. I'll call you back when my head's cut off, but of course that will be too late.
Then you say they had an open centre diff, while temp 4WD cars rarely have a centre diff but act as locked when 4WD is engaged - so do you actually have a clue what your on about or not - let me guess - or not!
Simon
'kin 'ell 'tis an old thread.
of course they are permanant 4wd, meaning that drive goes to all four wheels in the same way that a 2wd car has drive going to 2 wheels, IF THERE IS TRACTION for all the wheels....
equal grip for all wheels = equal power distributed to all wheels
all older landies and rangerovers, hiluxs etc in fact all offroad type cars from that era, without the devils-electrickery, effectively have a center difflock , which you need to manually engage otherwise the center diff, or transfer box, is open. meaning that one wheel front or rear looses all traction, then there is no traction.
don't feel too foolish though even after replying like a tw4t, it is a common misconception, indeed i was shocked in my first rangrover, once when i was left with one wheel spinning on a not particularly steep slope, i actually thought there was a fault, until it was pointed out to me the limitations.
