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Old 24 January 2010, 14:43   #1
syndrome1
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Default Waste gate n dump valve

What's the difference between a dv and an external wastegate??
I have a feeling my standard wastegate on my uk turbo2000 may not b functioning correctly as it appears to be running on actuator pressure only (0.5 bar) as opposed to 0.8-0.9 all the hoses are fine and I've cleaned the boost solenoid propperly and I can hear it clicking as it should the car is not in limp mode and I've had this confirmed. Is it possible that my bailey dump valve is at fault?
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Old 24 January 2010, 14:57   #2
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Do u get any whooshing noises when on boost? I have a bailey on mine it's awful, not saying yours is shot but mine sticks open, you can check it's working, just run with the bonnet open rev it up and you'll see the piston in the dv working. Could be the waste gate try searching the forums to check the test procedure I'm sure someone asked a similar q recently
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Old 24 January 2010, 19:50   #3
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Well just revved it up and yeah I can hear a sort of whooshing noise plus I can feel air blowing out of the valve whilst building the revs up and I don't mean when I let off and it dumps hahaha! I can see the piston moving so am presuming there's a seal gone somewhere
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Old 24 January 2010, 20:06   #4
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Take the dv off, open it up take out the piston, the seal on mine had turned over and gone out of shape. Fitted a new one ( just an o ring) lubed with a sillicone spray it's ok now but I do lube once a week. Give it a go see what happens. Do u still have the standard dv?
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Old 24 January 2010, 20:14   #5
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A dump Valve releases the pressurised air in the intercooler and pipework, when the throttle plate is closed down after any +ve boost running

An internal (or external) wastegate relieves exhaust gas away from the turbo exhaust wheel, to regulate boost levels.

All OE Subaru turbos have an internal gate and an actuator, turbos without an internal gate setup also require a mechanism to regulate boost - An external gate that attaches to the exhaust manifold/uppipe.

Try replacing your Bailey DV with the original item to test it
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Old 24 January 2010, 20:35   #6
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Unfortunately I don't have the original as the bailey was on wen I bought the car I'll rip it out and replace the seal first that's gotta be cheaper haha
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Old 24 January 2010, 23:43   #7
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get a hks ssqv mate baileys suck
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Old 25 January 2010, 10:03   #8
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They ain't cheap them hks ones are they? haha are there any other good alternatives?
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Old 25 January 2010, 10:29   #9
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To proves its the DV, remove it, bung up hole in the boost hose (use the jubalee clip from the DV to make sure the bung is held in well) and also bung up the vac hose. take it for a run if you are now getting the require boost its the dv.

Give bailey a ring and get a new seal. jobs a goodun.

Dave
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Old 25 January 2010, 11:53   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claaarkio View Post
To proves its the DV, remove it, bung up hole in the boost hose (use the jubalee clip from the DV to make sure the bung is held in well) and also bung up the vac hose. take it for a run if you are now getting the require boost its the dv.

Give bailey a ring and get a new seal. jobs a goodun.

Dave
What year is the car? Surely it's not on a pipe it bolts straight to the I/C?
Good principle but not sure it'll work on his model!
The best way is to free off the piston for a temporary measure and source an oe recirc valve and bin the bailey all together
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Old 25 January 2010, 12:07   #11
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What year is the car? Surely it's not on a pipe it bolts straight to the I/C?
Good principle but not sure it'll work on his model!
The best way is to free off the piston for a temporary measure and source an oe recirc valve and bin the bailey all together
Good point, having a early classic myself i assumed!!!
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Old 26 January 2010, 00:04   #12
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Sorry shouldve said it's a w Reg uk turbo 2000 so yeah it just bolts to the intercooler can I still block it off?
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Old 26 January 2010, 00:08   #13
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You could remove your DV, and bolt a metal plate in it's place to seal the intercooler, for testing.
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Old 26 January 2010, 10:35   #14
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Just a bit more of a pain to do compared to the early classic where a broom handle and jubaliee clip is your friend!!
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Old 26 January 2010, 11:18   #15
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So is it safe to block off the dv on the intercooler on a temporary basis
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Old 26 January 2010, 11:27   #16
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I would say its ok to do a few runs to check the boost but subaru saw fit to add the valve so i would say it should be installed and working, although i think some people do run without one. I believe this accelerates the demise of your turbo though. Others could perhaps confirm this.

Dave
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Old 26 January 2010, 12:07   #17
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Yeah that's what I thought. Wouldn't this give off loads of turbo chatter? Which sounds cool but I'm lead to believe that this causes excessive wear to the turbo. I'll try just repairing the bailey as a temp fix then I'm gonna go for a HKS ssqv I hope it is just the dv causing the problems
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Old 26 January 2010, 18:33   #18
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your turbo would find it hard to spool going up gears , ok for first and second but will toil to build boost 3rd upwards the dump valve essentially stops backpressure causing the turbo to STALL ! and hence taking longer to spool up which is lag as its known obviously
other than that removing it would only cause lag

without the dv you would get the same WHOOSH NOISE but it would be coming from the mouth of the turbo rather than the dv , that woosh noise without a dump valve which can be heard on fiesta rs turbos and escorts without dv's is basically the air travelling out backwards to the only point of pressure release ( the air filter track )

so basically it would be fine to remove it just as long as ur wiling to put up with the above until a better one is sourced

Last edited by johngoulding; 26 January 2010 at 18:36.
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Old 26 January 2010, 19:10   #19
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Ok cool just as long as it won't make owt go boom haha. I'm guessing if the dv is buggered, blocking it off would prove this?
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Old 26 January 2010, 19:19   #20
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Blocking it off just for testing purposes shouldn't blow the TD04 up - The MAF won't like it for prolonged periods though.
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Old 27 January 2010, 14:40   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johngoulding View Post
your turbo would find it hard to spool going up gears , ok for first and second but will toil to build boost 3rd upwards the dump valve essentially stops backpressure causing the turbo to STALL ! and hence taking longer to spool up which is lag as its known obviously
other than that removing it would only cause lag

without the dv you would get the same WHOOSH NOISE but it would be coming from the mouth of the turbo rather than the dv , that woosh noise without a dump valve which can be heard on fiesta rs turbos and escorts without dv's is basically the air travelling out backwards to the only point of pressure release ( the air filter track )

so basically it would be fine to remove it just as long as ur wiling to put up with the above until a better one is sourced
I know this is the standard respose to DV discussions but every turbo car i have tested with returns quite the opposite!

When you "Dump" the air from the pipework the turbo has to refill the boost hosing and get the pressure back up to the point before the gear change, this will obviously cause a bit of lag, With no DV the system doesn't de-pressurise and so during quick gear changes the lag is almost eliminated completely! The flip side is the bearings on the turbo take a hit from the pressure wave which is not dissipated due to having no DV.

We used to remove the DVs when running 1/4 miles at the pod to save vital 100ths !

Dave
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Old 27 January 2010, 15:40   #22
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Cheers for all the help guys I'd be screwed without ya :-)
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Old 29 January 2010, 17:12   #23
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How do you get that wrc type chirping sound? Is that wastegate chatter? If I fit a recirc dv with a cone filter will I still get a dump sound? Sorry for asking these 'dumb' questions but this is my first turbo car and I really don't have a clue.
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Old 29 January 2010, 18:31   #24
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Originally Posted by syndrome1 View Post
How do you get that wrc type chirping sound?
By buying a WRC car and driving round everywhere like you're being chased by al Qaeda, or taking up rallying.

I'm not joking either. You want that noise, the method above is the pretty much the only way to get it. You can get a facsimile on a roadcar but it's usually pretty pale imitation in comparison, both for technical reasons and also simply because you never drive on the public road in the same way you would on a rally special stage.

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Is that wastegate chatter?
No it's the result of air pressure waves caused by the throttle shutting off, in a context where there's no dumpvalve to vent excess charge air.

If you delete the DV on a roadcar you'll get a semblance of the noise if you lift off on boost but as above it's very weedy in comparison to what you will have in your head.

Deleting the dumpvalve on a 99-00 is not a good idea as even though the turbo will be able to deal with it for a while, the airflow sensor will quite quickly begin to suffer damage as a result of exposure to the air pulses - and if left undiagnosed will eventually cause you serious engine damage.

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If I fit a recirc dv with a cone filter will I still get a dump sound?
Fitting a cone should give you a little more induction and dump noises, but doing so on your car is an all-round bad idea due both to the MAF scaling issues, and, as with the DV delete, the increased risk of vibration damage to the sensor. You can sort the scaling out via a remap but the vibration damage aspect is an ongoing problem.

TBH the most pragmatic way forward on this subject is to accept that, as above, the only way to make your car sound like a WRC is to buy one of those. Going out of your way to force your roadcar to make noises it naturally wouldn't is a bit of a fool's errand.

As I've said before you could always get a CD of WRC engine and transmission noise and play them on your stereo if you like the sound so much. Your car will prefer this approach too as you won't be prejudicing the optimal operation of the engine in pursuit of spurious noise.

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Sorry for asking these 'dumb' questions but this is my first turbo car and I really don't have a clue.
Dude, there's a very nice search function up there ^^. It's designed to help you find the answers to all these dumb questions, as invariably they'll have been asked before. This is a case in point.

Last edited by Splitpin; 29 January 2010 at 18:33.
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Old 29 January 2010, 21:55   #25
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Sorry dude I'll be more mindful next time
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Old 29 January 2010, 23:09   #26
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my god its nice to see you taking it easy on syndrome 1, not ! dont apologise mate this website is open to all people who know loads and those that do not.ask as many DUMB quistions as you like,if you dont ask you dont get.,
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Old 30 January 2010, 00:14   #27
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my god its nice to see you taking it easy on syndrome 1, not !
What on earth are you talking about? I answered Syndrome's question accurately, comprehensively and at length, whereas I note that your only contribution so far has been to bitch and moan. How are you defining "taking it easy" in this context, contributing bugger all?

I used the word "dumb" for one reason - because Syndrome used it himself. I mentioned the search facility for no reason other than that it is often the quickest and best way to get answers to questions like this. It's invariably quicker than posting and waiting for someone who knows to see the thread and write out an answer. That isn't criticism, that's being helpful and constructive.

Quote:
dont apologise mate this website is open to all people who know loads and those that do not.ask as many DUMB quistions as you like,
In this case it was the poster himself who acknowledged up front that it might be a "dumb" question, and it was in this specific context that I answered him - hence me quoting his post directly above the reply.

If the search button wasn't meant to be used, it wouldn't be there, and there wouldn't be posts like this telling users how to get the best out of it.

To demonstrate the point I've just searched for "WRC Noise". These are among the first ten answers:

http://bbs.scoobynet.com/general-tec...ight=wrc+noise
http://bbs.scoobynet.com/general-tec...ight=wrc+noise
http://bbs.scoobynet.com/general-tec...ight=wrc+noise
http://bbs.scoobynet.com/general-tec...ight=wrc+noise
http://bbs.scoobynet.com/general-tec...ight=wrc+noise

The thread titles say it all, and there are plenty more. There's as much already written as Syndrome could ever want to know. Finding the threads takes seconds, and yet here you are suggesting he'd be better off sitting and waiting. Nice.

Oh, by the way Carl, I've had a quick scan through all those threads. I can't see a single contribution from you on any of them.

Quote:
if you dont ask you dont get.,
He did ask, and got more from me than you have so far contributed, either to this thread or any of those others I've just linked to. Seems all you do is bitch and moan, and advise others to ignore one of Snet's most powerful and informative resources. How odd.
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Old 30 January 2010, 02:05   #28
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Guys don't turn my post into a bitchathon lol I'm a noob end of! chill! Like I said I'll b more mindfull in future!
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Old 30 January 2010, 17:11   #29
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Guys don't turn my post into a bitchathon lol I'm a noob end of! chill! Like I said I'll b more mindfull in future!
No sweat my friend it wasn't me who had the ****. Some people!
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Old 30 January 2010, 17:11
 
 
 
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