midget1500

hey weight lifters (and noisy people :-))

me

24
10 stone
5ft9

started using a multigym and some free weights about 3 weeks ago. struggled to bench press 40kg. just managed 60kg yesterday. was using 10kg dumbells, upto 15kg yesterday also.

i've been doing around 30 mins a day, sun-thurs (need fri and sat off due to hangovers!)

i've been doing 3 sets of each exercise on multigym with 8-10 reps (bench press, thing where u pull the bar down, thing where u do a leg curl and thing where u pull your arms together).

i started this a few weeks ago just to build up some general strength but think i need some goals. i've never been mad into fitness or weight lifting. plan to start some cardio stuff soon.

i guess a goal for me could be to lift 100kg (as this is what the multigym goes upto!). though i'm sure that is a loooooong way off.

so just looking for general advice, does my routine seem ok? what sort of gains should i be reasonably expecting (i'm thinking that going from 40-60kg in 3 weeks is begineers luck and that rate can't be sustained).

diet? i eat rubbish. might start focusing on this too.

i've searched the web for workout routines (e.g. for abs etc but all google turns up are millions of crappy american websites trying to sell me a super ultra mega fitness plan, yaadda yaadaaa).

cheers
steven

Davie

Hello mate,

i'v been seriously training now for about 3 months, and have seen massive gains in my "honeymoon" period.

i too eat junk and get p!ssed far too often, but you need to get a routine going

i do chest and tris on a monday

back and bis on a wednesday

legs and shoulders on a saturday

i'll give you a more broken down version if you like.

also consider moving to free weights, multi gyms are OK, but restrict your movement

AudiMan

Steven,
Lots of people will give you advice, but there are loads of factors which will affect how you progress, they include
Your body's type (lean, fatty etc...) will depend on what type of gains you will achieve,
Diet is a huge factor - drinking = bad,
the number of times you train and the type of training.
A link which I've found from one of the sites I used contains info on types of exercise. http://www.betterbodz.com/howto.html
Best thing to do is set up a routine eg monday (Top arms + shoulders + calves), wednesday (chest, lower arms and thighs etc),
train for about 60 -90 minutes,
The type of training will depend on your stamina, which will increase fairly quickly, but a good rule of thumb is to be able to do 3 sets of 10-12 reps but done properly with no cheating, once you can do this increase the weight by about 5-10% and so on.
It may even be worth doing an induction at a local gym to get some idea of the type of routine which would suite you.
Hope this is useful.

Ian..

Rumplestiltskin!

Get yourself a copy of :

Blood & Guts - by Dorian Yates
The Encyclopedia of Modern Body Building - by Arnold Shwarzenegger.

Great books will tell you all you need to know.
Ignore most of the nutritional stuff in Arnies books - as nutrition has moved on a hell of a lot since it was written.

Rump.

milo

first of all your routine doesnt sound good. you make it seem like you're doing the same exercises every day. muscle needs more time to recover in order to grow and get stronger. look into doing a split, or at least 72 hours between retraining the same body part. and focus on core compound lifts, not using machines. heavy compound lifts are what builds real muscle and strength.

the second (and actually most important) thing is, in weight lifting and bodybuilding, diet is at LEAST 80% of your gains. to "eat rubbish" is killing your gains. get your diet sorted, especially post-workout nutrition.

as for going from 40kg to 60kg in 3 weeks, that's entirely plausable for a newbie. you will gain from muscle adaption mostly to start with. you're just getting used to the movements. it will slow down and you'll plateau though. but it's absolutely entirely possible for an individual to increase their strength by at least 300% within less than 2 years from starting lifting if they've got the right routine and diet.

chrome

listen to Milo dude

he helped me with a similar situation.. and already looking/feeling loads better.
another 3 months and I should be well on the way to buffdom
(milo: the wife appreciates your advice )

*and my diet was the biggest factor..
it has changed massively, and only lost a few pounds, but all my clothes fit properly again and the beer gut is almost gone!

ozzy

You will make big gains in the early stages. I've added two weight sessions to my own training (Mon/Thu). Mine looks like this (in no particular order).

Squats
Bench Press
Deadlifts
Lat Pulldowns
Low-pulley Rows
Weighed Stomach Crunches (using lat pulldown machine)
Weighed Sit-ups (incline bench and 10kg plate)
Barbell Curls
Barbell Shoulder Press
Leg Extensions

I do 3-sets of 10-8 reps and pyramid the weights.

Only been doing this for about 5 weeks and I've doubled my squats to over my own bodyweight.

Not looking to get 'big', just to help my running performance and build strength into my legs.

Stefan

midget1500

lots to take in here - cheers guys. milo, yes, same exercise routine 5 days in a row. although at the time it kills me (till i can't physically do it anymore!) i can do it again the next day!?! looks like i'll need to look into this a bit more, rather than the casual way in which i've been approaching it so far.

to give me an overall goal, any ideas on timeframe from going from 60kg to 100kg on bench? i guess everyone is different and i don't plan on doing more than 45mins a day, 5 days a week.

super_si

goal wise saying lifting 100kg doesnt mean anything to me.

In what fashion, for me personaly i love deads and squats you will soon love then too but im anti home training

chrome

examplegoal: I want to lose fat, and gain some lean muscle
examplegoal: I want to gain 7lbs by feb 1st 2005

that kind of thing

milo

you're not lifting with enough intensity if u can get up the next day and do the same workout. chances are, if you're working out your whole body, you're just not able to dedicate enough to each muscle group.

besides, just because u feel like u can do it again the next day, it doesnt mean u should. by training u break down the fibers in the muscle. when they rebuild, they become bigger and stronger. by never letting them rebuild, you're never going to get bigger and stronger and you'll overtrain eventually - its just a matter of time.

you're progressing now due to getting used to the movement... not because you've suddenly increased your real strength by 50% in 3 weeks.


tbh, 5 days a week is too much, especially as you're not splitting, and you'll overtrain if you're lifting with any kind of intensity.

going from x to y in weight (in your case 60-100) will be different for everyone so there's no way of telling how long it will take you. a wild stab in the dark would be at best you could hope to add 2.5kg each week to your lifts. some weeks you'll be able to increase, some you won't. this is a realistic aim imo.

at the end of the day though, your results in the gym are mostly determined by your diet. neglecting this will be your downfall.

as far as training goes, i would be willing to wager that you're neglecting legs. for some odd reason most people do. squats are the king. i can honestly say that if you do a heavy set of squats near failure, you will NOT in a million years be able to go back the next day and do the same weight again

ozzy

I can vouch for Milo's comments. The first 3 weeks I did heavy squats and deadlifts, I could hardly walk for the next couple of days and it was a struggle doing the second session. I even had to lay off my daily runs for over a week to recover.

I wouldn't get hung-up on numbers when it comes to lifting weights unless your aim is to break records. Everyone has to start somewhere and if you rush ahead adding too much weight you'll probaly lose form and end up injurying yourself.

Also, make sure you warm-up and stretch before lifting and do a cool-down and more deeper stretches afterwards.

Remember your body gets stronger when it's resting, not when your exercising. You break the muscle down and when it repairs itself it makes it bigger and stronger. If you don't exercise at a high enough intensity and don't get sufficient rest you'll not reach any goals (not in the long term anyway).

Stefan

richieh

slight hyjack but with regard to squats
im just 6 foot tall but ive got a 34 inside leg with long thighs so when i squat down to parallel my heels come off the floor in order to stop me toppling over so minimising the effect of the exercise
anyone encountered this before or know a way round it or am i gonna have to get a leg press machine
cheers richie

super_si

Ive seen a report publish stating its bull**** ive only once had a problem, that once the abducts after 2weeks no squatting

milo

you need to sit BACK, not down.

get the bar lower down on your back when you squat. this will push your center of balance back.

DONT stop at parallel. instead go down until your hams touch your calves. basically as far as you can possibly go.

don't lean forwards unnaturally. if you've got the bar low enough on your traps/back and are sitting back to squat instead of down, it will feel great and you won't go off-balance like you are now.

when you reach the bottom position, push up from your heels.

use a lighter weight to start with if necessary until you get your form down. just dont keep doing them the way you are doing them now.. you'll do yourself damage.

super_si

Leaning forwards due to you not pushing through the heals?, also body will follow the head, is that looking upwards??

si

richieh

hi milo et al
its not a form problem as even with no weight if i squat 'properly' i fall over backwards
my femurs are that long compared to the rest of me i can only do it by bending forward for balance-thats why i wont use much weight-used to use about 60kg when i could leg press 400kg on a 45degree mc
used to get the p**s taken all the time at the gym
just hoped that maybe there was an easy answer
cheers richie

The Chief

Hi Steven

You must realise that you must walk before you can run so dont be going daft by following routines of any bodybuilders out of magazines 'cos they are all juiced up to buggery.
Stick with your multigym for the next 3 months or so to decide if you are serious and then i would strongly recommend joining a decent gym with decent freeweights and then train no more than 3 days a week otherwise you will not recover and your gains will be nil.
Cut down on the booze and i really mean this as i spent years not listening to this advice and it severley hampered my gains, eat healthly and if you are not eating enough protein then do not go spending loads at your local holland and barrett go to the whey consortium www.wheyconsortium.co.uk and get yourself a big 5kg tub of whey for about 40 quid and a tub of L-Glutamine which will help you recover from a workout and trust me if you are finding it hard to put weight on this stuff works but dont think you will end up looking like arnie boy because to get like this you need something a little stronger if you know what i mean and i would strongly advise against that.

Ok i hope i have been a little help here

milo

i still maintain that its a form issue - you need to adust your form accordingly based on your body type.

it MAY be a flexibility issue of course - ankles are often a problem area.

also remember than when holding the bar, your elbows should be pointed as far down as possible. are you sure you're not pushing them back?

also try a wider stance - this could help - most with longer limbs squat that way.

ozzy

There's reports for everything. If you stretch you increase your range of motion and reduce your risk of injury. It's preventative, not gospel and it's helped reduce soreness next day for me. At the very least it keeps you flexible and you can't tell me that's not important for any sport.

Don't know any top sports people who don't do some stretching.

Stefan

milo

yeah i concur. id not even think about doing a heavy set until id done a **** load of warm-ups first, plus some stretching. i dont do nearly as much stretching as i used to as im flexible enough, but i definitely still do plenty of stretching.

dont stretch a cold muscle tho. start light with warm-ups, gradually go heavier, and stretch between sets. better safe than sorry

super_si

I warm up only before squat and deadlift with 1 plate then go to 4/5 max. Like i said only once had a pull both abductors

Si

ozzy

have you tried stretching? maybe it'll improve your performance or reduce soreness after a session? At the very least it'll keep you flexible. Won't the muscles get short & fat if you don't?

You maybe used to it, but I would never tell anyone starting any sort of training not to stretch. Only asking for trouble IMHO.

A m8 of mine never stretches before a run and says the same about never having problems. If you ask him what injuries he's had in a 20+yr career somethings fall into place

If I don't warm-up and stretch my calves, hamstrings and lower back feel tight for the first 20mins before I'm loose enough to start running properly.

Stefan

super_si

I dont like to mess around i like to get straight into it with the mindset before it wanders. Muscle soreness doesnt bother me. I like it knowing im propper ****ed

Si

midget1500

milo

i've been following all these weight lifting threads with interest and rather than hijack (as everyone else seems to be doing :-)) i thought i'd dig this up.

i haven't really made that many more gains, i'm definately stronger, it's all much easier but i'm not able to make much progress now. so i better take your advice and focus on diet.

i'm around 5'9 and 10stone and cannot put on weight, ever, no matter how i try. i was looking on maximuscle.co.uk as mentioned on another one of the threads and by god all these supplements are not cheap. i was thinking of getting a tub of progain which is 2kg and says you need to take a 120g dose 45mins before and immediately after exercise, so that will last me 8 sessions (~2 weeks).

does this seem like the right stuff to try? anything else?

many thanks
steven

The Chief

It's good but expensive try www.wheyconsortium.co.uk and get yourself a 5kg (big) tub of whey for about 40 quid although it is unflavoured just add some nesquik it will last for ages also get some L-Glutamine which is also in Promax and Progain go here and save a fortune.

milo

hey bro. firstly, i think i said it on this thread and ive been saying it a lot recently, but diet is 80%+ of your gains. at the best of times, progress is painfully slow, and it becomes much worse if you haven't got your diet on form.

at 5'9 and 10 stone you are a raging ectomorph. your metabolism will be crazy fast. it's not a case of not being able to put on weight - its just a case that you need to eat enough to do so. what is your current exact diet? working on this should be your #1 priority.

as for the supplements.. forget them. whey and dextrose post-workout is all you need (and even then you don't need anything like the quantities most people are taking). everything else should be whole nutritious foods. most of the "weight gain" supplements are just heavily loaded sugar... which will get you mass alright - but the wrong kind. list out your current diet including quantities and we'll get that right first. seriously bro, save your money from supplements and buy loads of clean food instead.

super_si

Isnt dextrose risky?

Ive heard of it before

Si

milo

no.. dextrose is glucose.. which is what every carb is broken down into. the varying degrees at which they're broken down is their gi. since dextrose requires almost no work to be used as glucose, it is the most ready way of replenishing glycogen stores. which is exactly what you want after you lift weights.

additionally, due to the effect on blood sugar levels, it will cause a nice insulin spike. again this is what you want post workout, as insulin is very anabolic. its not as anabolic as most people will have you believe.. but it can work wonders, especially for ectomorphs.

who told u dextrose was risky?

Peccant

I find dextrose gives me the strength I need to carry on sometimes......