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Cheers guys... and I have good news. Paypal refunded me after I threatened them with legal action. I'd already given them the details of the police investigation and they had ignored it and found in favour of the seller... appealed, kept on and on at them to look at the evidence properly... gave them all the crime ref number, office in charge and which station.. and then told them that I was also a member of the consumer action group... if any of you know them, they've had great success in helping people take action against all sorts of companies... and paypal have backed down everytime before it reaches court. They don't want a court case setting precedent that others can then use against them, perhaps even forcing them to be treated as a bank or proper financial institution. I'm sorry if any of you were looking forward to a new story and all the fun and games that go with it... this thread has been epic, and if any of you like that sort of think, do a google for thescambaiter... those guys and girls are legendary and some of the scams they've pulled on the scammers are a joy to read... but be prepared to lose a few days on some of those threads. No idea if the seller caved as well, after I called them and let slip full names (inc middle) and age/year of birth... and then enquired how his golf game was lately.