Carnut

I am currently watching a car documentary on Eric Bana including interviews from Clarkson and they are talking about what being a REAL car enthusiast is alll about. They talk about their relationship between themselves and the cars they've owned and how it can't be explained to none car people.

This got me thinking, why is SN constantly quantifying how good the different types of Subarus are by how many scammers there are or which one is the most reliable and how jdm cars are the best and the uk ones are shìt, surly there is more to it than that. Lets face it, any performance car can be seen as stupid, they are all expensive ways to get about and for the most part a £1000 Corsa can probably do just as good job if not better for the most part anyway.

I like turbo lag and ugly looks, it makes them a car for the working class to go and shove it to the big German cars that otherwise think that the **** next to him with his loud exhaust and big wing thinks he is someone. Then all of a sudden the guy in the big German car is wondering why he is looking at a ever increasing small dot of a Subaru and what the hell did 50k actually get him.

Car enthusiast have a passion for cars that can't be explained to none enthusiasts, its heart over head. The problem I have with SN is that for some reason Subaru enthusiasts are constantly being asked to explain themselves on a Subaru enthusiasts site.



ladys and gentlemen, I now introduce to you, the trolls.

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

The term I think you are looking for is Petrol Head. I think a petrol head would rather own a car with character than one that makes financial sense.

Rusti

iTrader: (4)

If you listen to Clarkson apparently you cant be a petrol head until you have owned an Alfa which is complete rubbish.

Tidgy

petrolhead - spends more money on cars than makes any logical sense


just about sums it up

Carnut

Yeah true but the point he is making is that you put up with the shìt for the one moment that all is well and you're on a good road.

Until you have owned something that is utterly rubbish just for that one moment you can't be a true petrolhead. (Some will say). Its about walking past the good reliable car and buying the dusty one in the corner because of the smell of it inside and the memories it brings.

urban

iTrader: (1)

JDM Subaru's are better, but I wouldn't say UK versions are **** though.

For a start, the JDM cars need to remap to be able to 'work' in the UK as they're designed to run on a very different quality of fuel

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

A petrolhead to me is someone heavily interested in the performance side of cars and bikes way moreso than any other aspect of them and who doesn't judge a vehicle solely by its marque.

That's not to say they have to like every performance car or bike made, just that they judge vehicles on their own merits irrespective of the manufacturer.

It is the latter part of this where a lot of Subaru (and some other marque) owners fall short of being true petrolheads in my opinion.

Some examples of how it should be.

On a Jaguar forum I frequent a poster asked about getting a BMW M5 over an XFR. Every single reply was positive and the general consensus was about 50/50.

A little while ago there was a post on Mercedes Owners Club asking about getting a weekend fun car and the STi got put forward for consideration. Again every reply was positive and the consensus was to go for it in several cases warning the poster that he may like the car more than his daily Merc.

Yet much of the time on here other marques are not even considered or worse ridiculed by many posters. Old man's car, hairdressers car, everything controlled by computer, unreliable, boring, pipe and slippers, no burble, no character, barryed, kid's car, woman's car, gayer.... oh and of course nothing is as fast as a Subaru etc. etc.

In fact I think I am right in saying people have left this site because of the general level of ridicule ... Trout comes to mind.

Anyway that's my take on it.

bustaMOVEs

iTrader: (31)

What about pre 98 jdm cars?

Paulo P

iTrader: (42)

And motorbikes

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

I'd say anything with an internal combustion engine. As long as it has character.

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

Ha ha, that thread went quiet the other day eh?

Reef

iTrader: (2)

The 'Petrolhead' I think is a dying breed. Modern cars are getting so hard to work on for the home mechanic and expensive for specialist work. Couple this with the price of fuel, insurance and road tax it looks to the outsider like a massive waste of money and time.

I think some people feel they have to explain on forums to try and justify it to themselves.

bustaMOVEs

iTrader: (31)

It's another can of worms there.

RS_Matt

Top gear's random love of Alfas is annoying me now, are they a sponsor/backer or something?

Many a time Clarkson has praised them then looked guilty as ****.

The power Top Gear has on the motor industry scares me.

Carnut

I don't grace these said site that you have mentioned but I strongly suspect that people discussing XFRS, M5 and AMGS etc are not true petrolheads. As I've already mentioned I don't go on said sites but do know lots of people who do and I say this as friend and relative but they may think they are, but I find it's more that they want to be.

I have been car less for some time now having had to sell my cars but fortunately i have many cars at my disposal, generally the three main cars have been my brothers new s class, my dads new golf and my brother in laws old punto. Out of the three cars the one I enjoy driving the most is the 53reg punto due to the fact it's manual and fun, in fact my brother enjoys driving his transit van more than the merc.(new s class is amazing though)

Subaru loyalty well I see brand loyalty as true sign of a petrolhead, I suspect that most classic ford owners know that their 20k cossie is on paper at least not as good as a v8 m3 that can be had for a similar price but just don't care, but personally speaking, I would feel more comfortable about asking advice on buying a German car than a subaru on here.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

In my experience there are quite a few true petrolheads on the Merc and Jag sites, but also a lot of other users too. The marques (especially Merc) span a wide range of vehicle types and models and hence there are many different types of owner I guess. Even some AMG and M car owners only have the car for the perceived prestige rather than the performance which always seems a bit daft to me.

I agree that brand loyalty is quite possible with petrolheads, but my point wasn't that brand loyalty is a bad thing, but that a lot of Subaru (and in my experience some other marques like Honda Type R cars) fans tend to not appreciate cars from other marques.

It's like the thread on here a few months back when someone said they'd rather drive their 2003 WRX than their boss's Porsche 911.... sorry, but that is just daft and that is no detriment to the WRX, but .. come on!

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Hardly and if I really need to tell you that you're not a petrolhead

Carnut

yes I know what you mean, I would happily push a subaru off a cliff to get to a good Porsche.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Well let's not go that far, but I get your sentiment.

It's no detriment to the Subaru, but if you get the chance to drive some piece of exotica that you may never be able to afford you jump at it don't you?

At a recent AMG day I got the chance to drive a brand new Weistec supercharged AMG bi-turbo.....was I going to decline and stick to my own 9 yer old SL...... was I f**k???

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Nope as most people can afford a Scooby, most people can't afford a decent Porsche or a Lambo and both cars have mental performance compared to most cars mere mortals like me drive anyway. Driving cars like that are rare opportunities so you seize them.

Anyway I gather you have driven both the Porsche and the Lambo so you can make your decision, but seeing as you drove both it kind of proves my point.

Put it this way you didn't tool up to the Lambo and say "actually I have driven a Porsche, I'll leave it thanks"

LuckyWelshchap

I wouldn't.

They say you are what you drive, meaning of course that if you could have any car you want it would be an extention of you, your character etc.
Being that, however, means that you believe yours to be the best, hence all the arguments about which is best (and unfortunately on SN the main way of going about that is to discredit and diss any other)

Petrolheads are to me like the early car or aviation pioneers.
They want or need to be different, to extend the boundaries.

Love a car for what it does, not what it looks like. Because if you have a car for its looks then you're getting it because others say how nice it looks.

First 'car' I bought was a beach buggy.
Why? - it was different, it was the only one in my town (probably county) and it did indeed go like soas.
Mexico, Manta - relatively rare cars that few knew about and which could look after themselves if someone tried it on.
Cat - could handle itself better than I could, limited and amazing for a 'family saloon'. Extended my driving ability.
2 more Subarus. Now powering even more. My appetite for handling and performance even greater.

Is there a better driving experience than dropping it a couple of gears and being catapulted forward, or 3 flicks of a steering wheel and you're through a roundabout, power coming on and sending you surging forward out of it, the car straightening itself up for you?

And then getting home and not worrying about the next service costing you 4 figures, or some cocky oick in their cheap chavvy heap of Jap **** belittling your throughbred piece of German or Italian engineering?

Nothing wrong with expensive cars, but would you associate an enthusiast with them?
How many AMG owners would dare to work on their car?
How many Porsche owners need to?
How many Ferrari owners suddenly decide to take a detour onto a B road, just to make the journey a bit more interesting?

And perhaps the most searching question:

How many of those types of owner actually know what their car is capable of and have done it?

I bet the percentage of enthusiasts is far higher.

Carnut

LuckyWelshchap when I said this------>"yes I know what you mean, I would happily push a subaru off a cliff to get to a good Porsche." It was nothing more than if I had the opportunity to have a play in a new 911 turbo or the 991 gt3 I would jump at the chance. Given 40k for example I would go see about getting the new sti with 450bhp etc rather than a 911 turbo or gtr etc.

I do agree with what you have said in your post and after all it was me who started the thread, there is just something about Subaru for me and although I have had the opportunity to drive many a good German cars I just don't like them.

In fact now I mentioned ze German cars why do people buy 3 series over the Mondeo, of course if it's a m3 you are after then fine but when looking like for like there just not considered these days. I tell what I think, the world went and got snobby, it's not just the 3 series, why would you go and get a new a class or 1 series over a focus, it's madness from where I am sitting.

urban

iTrader: (1)

What about them?

They'll not tolerate UK fuel either.

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

There was a thread in which this question was asked the other day. It was suggested a pre-98 should have been mapped for 99 Ron. When it was pointed out that all pre 98's needed a new ECU to do this, it went a little quiet.
Mines a 98, and had a non mappable ECU on it, and was only mapped when I had an ESL fitted.

LuckyWelshchap

I know. I was making a tongue-in-cheek comment.
No self-respecting member of SN would push one over a cliff (unless it was an insurance scam)

Along the same lines as your thinking, I think the value in the 'snob marques' is when they become older. Although maintenance costs are high, the bang-for-buck in them, coupled with the quality (because they are quality to start with) makes them attractive.
I once had a 528 M-pack. Outstanding vfm at only £1,800, especially since it got nicked (and recovered) after 18 months - and I got £2,800 back for it !

Out of the box it's a no-brainer, unless of course you place snob value above vfm.