MTR

On my post about Halfords oil, someone asked about Shell oil.
I e-mailed them and have recieved this response.

Good morning Martin

Shell Helix Ultra 5W/40 is a grade 3 synthetic oil. Group 4 contains PAO. Hope this helps.

If there is anything else you require please contact the Customer Service Centre.

Regards

********
Customer Service Lubricants Advisor
Business & Technical Team
Shell U.K. Oil Products

End of quote:

And for interest its £32.99 for 5 litres.

So Halfords is classIII
Comma is Class III
Millers XFS is class III
and Shell Helix Ultra is class III.

There must be an awful lot of cars driving about with this oil in them.
Presumably not seizing up all the time.

And to clarify they are hydrocracked mineral oil not cooking oil as some people seem to think!!! as thats vegtable based much like Castrol R racing oil.

Cheers
MTR

Stainy

In that case, I'll move onto Halfords own on my next oil change. Can't see any point in spending double the money for the name Or I might just move to a GpIV oil for slightly more

flynnstudio

Good one! nice bit of research that...it's a proverbial big wet haddock and pete's going to be slapping some faces with it very often..

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Think about it...any oil company related to refining crude for petrol/diesel/jet fuel etc WILL use crude basestocks for their oils a refine to get the achieved standard

TonyFlow

?

MTR

Tony Flow,
The point I am making is that Group III synthetic MINERAL oils are not VEGTABLE based oils ie cooking oils, as certain indivduals on the other post were inferring.
And pointing out that Castrol R oil, as used by the works rally teams back in the 70's IS a vegtable based oil IIRC, although I shouldn't think you would want to cook with that either.

Cheers
MTR

pslewis

MTR thats an excellent piece ..... as was your Halfords piece

I wonder if Oilmans 'Expert' Chemist of 40 years standing will come back and say thet these Oils will damage our engines??

I think the lid has been blown ............. send your car into a Subaru Main Dealer and they pop Shell Helix in ... you can pop down to your Motor Factors and buy COMMA Semi at £15 and you get the same stuff, to the same standards ............................

Now, where are the mugs who buy Oil at £30+ for 4 Litres or even, heaven forbid, at £40+!!

Pete

flynnstudio

I got to hand it to the man - he's right...

BUT that still doesn't rule out AMSOIL being superior to either comma or shell helix...

MTR

Pete, I think you might be being mis-led slightly.
The Halfords brand fully synthetic is made by Comma and may well be identical to Comma Syner G 5W-40 FULLY SYNTHETIC.
But not the same as Comma semi synthetic.

But the Halfords and Comma synthetic variants are the same class of oil as Shell Helix Ultra ie group III

Cheers
MTR

pslewis

No I'm sure ANUSOIL is still superior ........... it simply MUST be - it's MORE EXPENSIVE!!

Isn't that how it works??

Pete

pslewis

Thats the Oil Subaru recommend for my car .... so your excellent work has enabled me to sleep well

Pete

TonyFlow

Cool, is this the same for the current Castrol R series (i.e. Castrol R 10/60?) I am informed that too is a group III oil?

'cos my deep fat fryer oil is looking a bit suss, and I have a spare bottle of Castrol in the shed!

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

No, he's on about castor oil - good stuff especially when running on meths. Just gums up after a bit so needs frequent rebuilds to clean it out.

I belive the current equivelent is castrol R40 or castrol "M"

sulli

But Silkolene pro S is still better than all of these, isn't it?
I seem to remember it's ester rantzen/pao - making it stick to metal after circulation, helping the engine in some way - or did I fall for the blag too??

pslewis

You fell for the blag, I'm afraid .....................

You simply do NOT need expensive oils .... if you do then you would know

If anyone needs to ask, "What Oil should I use?" the answer is ALWAYS to stick with Subarus recommendation .........

I am glad that the Halfords and Comma Oils have been shown to be excellent oils that will not, despite what some may want you to believe, wreck your engine!

A day of victory for common sense .....

Pete

ZEN Performance

Tell that to the TWO people with cars I have had recently that are both Subaru maintained, and both had big end failures with less than 50,000 miles. In fact one of the cars was owned by one of the staff at my local dealership, and has started to go just outside of the warranty period.

But maybe that's just down to the way the dealer changes the oil.

Paul

GrahamG

Thats what i use. Not being changed for a while. hopefully it's worth its pennies....

TonyFlow

Now you've started something

pslewis

Yes? AND?

Can you WITHOUT HESITATION and WITH ABSOLUTE PROOF state that the Shell Helix was to blame for the failures??

Or, is it as I suspect, and 'just a feeling'??

Plenty of things can destroy Big-Ends, tell you what - name a few, should be easy ..............

Pete

ZEN Performance

I never said anything about the type of oil used, so I have no need to state anything with or without absolute proof.

Paul

pslewis

At least the Dealers allow the owner to specify the Oil that goes into their engine!!

I see on your website that you DO NOT allow ANY Oil other than Millers 10W/60 ...... !! Thats nice then - forcing owners to use what you state!! You say the reason is about price - shame it's not about quality.

Therefore if an owner brough Silkolene into you you would NOT allow it to be used, or MOBIL, or Shell Helix, or Castrol R .............. you really reckon these oils are that bad then?? I am shocked!

Oilman has something to say about that 10W/60 Millers Oil, I will quote his words from another Forum:-

"What an earth do you want 10w-60 for? It's way off spec for your cars.

5w-30, 5w-40 or 10w-40 tops.

You need an sae 30 or 40 not 60.

If the oil is too thick it will cause friction which causes heat and wear. It also wastes power through excessive oil drag. Be sensible

Cheers
Simon"

Quote here:- http://www.migweb.co.uk/forums/showt...51#post2194051

So ...... Oilman says BE SENSIBLE!! 60 is WAY too thick - I actually agree FULLY with him on this .... I think 50 is too thick (he thinks it's ok for the Impreza).

This is from OPIEOILMAN:-

Tyre Smoke said:Guy, do you stock Millers, Morris, or Synta oils?

---------------------------------------

Hello tyre smoke ,not heard from you in a while.

In answer to your question, no we dont stock these oils, we have looked into them but decided not to.

---------------------------------------

Tyre Smoke said:
They are equal or better spec than your recommendations.

---------------------------------------

Oh, how wrong you are.

But you stick with what you feel comfortable with, as you do know best.

Cheers

Guy.
----------- Quote here:- http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/t...=8&h=&t=162767

-------------------------------------------

So there we go .............. the wisemen say that MILLERS are crap!!

And YOU are refusing to allow customers to have an Oil of THEIR choosing??

Unbelievable

Pete

pslewis

YOU IMPLIED the Oil did the damage ....................... are you saying that the Oil choice had NOTHING to do with it then??

Pete

JTaylor

MTR -

Thanks for your efforts on this, it makes for interesting reading.

Given that the original debate was about "the best" oil, would you be able to let us know how Silkolene Pro S and Motul 300 V compare to the grade III oils. I don't recall anyone asking for a comparison between Comma/Halfords and Shell Helix but between this group and the aforementioned.

Your findings, whilst commendable, go no way towards offering a conclusion reflecting those questions raised in the initial debate. What they do tell us is that if you have a standard car you may as well save a few quid and buy Halfords own. Nobody will argue with this.

However, what about the vast majority of the enthusiasts who frequent this site who have modified their cars? Does Silkolene PRO S/Motul 300 V offer the additional protection needed for cars who's output exceeds that intended by the manufacturer. My educated guess is it that it does and I'm sure a labtec would corroberate.

I'll risk an anology. Just because Subaru recommend their OE pads, disks and brake fluid would it not be sensible to upgrade in-line with your cars uprated performance? Subsequently would one not upgrade their oil for the same reasons?

I really hope we can all agree on this and that contributors will put their egos and agendas to oneside in the name of common sense.

J

MTR

Paul,
Indirectly you DID say something about the type of oil used, if not actually naming a brand.

You attached Pete’s reference to using Subarus recommended oil, which is Shell Helix, (or any Group III oil)or it is at my dealers currently, and was when I bought my first Impreza in 1997 at a different dealers.

So by inference you are saying that maybe Subarus recommendation of using a Group III fully synthetic oil (Shell Helix etc) is not up to the job.

But then you add the comment
It could be one or the other or possibly both reasons, or NEITHER.

Unless you have had a chemical analysis done of the engine oil, like you would do in an aero engine failure, and had the mechanical components investigated for physical proof of the cause of failure, then you are guessing as to the cause.

You are perhaps unwittingly or maybe deliberately reinforcing the stereotypical belief that all that is good must be 100% synthetic, as hydro cracked mineral oils can't possibly be up to the job.

An oil is there to provide adequate lubrication, for a specific application .eg an engine used within its design parameters.
If it does that, and stays within the manufactures specifications then it is good enough.

A better quality or more expensive oil will not necessarily lubricate any better, BUT it may allow an engine in this scenario to work safely OUTSIDE its normal working parameters.

I understand your stance, because if you recommend something to one of your paying customers which subsequently fails, or causes a failure your professional reputation/profit would suffer.

Cheers
MTR

turbodan

Like I said in a previous post its virtually impossible to prove that silkolene will protect an engine better than Halfords oil. How could you realistically do such a test? Good anology Mr Taylor but I dont think you can get the answers you want. You pays your money...

flynnstudio

Yes, I'd like to know comparatively speaking specifically how much better will AMSOIL be than the Shell Helix Fully Synthetic I've got in mine - since I have now discovered it's no better than the oil Pete uses in his car and according to popular folklore that's little better than 6 month old dirty burnt chip fat!!!

If it wasn't that Pete was so adamant that this is upto spec - and crazy as it sounds I do *sort of * value his opinion on this I'd be concerned having always used Mobil 1 in all my expensive performance cars previously...

Yours Sincerley,

Curious of Yorkshire.

pslewis

I have always said that my stance regards the Standard Road Car ..... always.

No ego involved in that statement.

The Adgenda item under discussion is whether the Oil Subaru recommends is good enough for the standard road car ...... Subaru recommends Shell Helix, which is the same type of Oil as the COMMA I use and the Halfords Oil I sometimes use.

The statements I object to strongly are, "You will damage your engine with that cheap crap oil" ........... I won't, I know I won't - but some Newbie who works in IT hasn't a 'cat-in-hells' chance if he is told that the Halfords Oil at £15 will blow his engine apart!!

And it is these owners I fight on behalf of ...................... as I understand Engineering and Technology - I cannot be hoodwinked and therefore, I will continue to tell them to use the Halfords/Comma Oil in their standard car.

Pete

JTaylor

What makes you think that my closing sentence alluded to you Pete?

MTR

J Taylor,
I am not an oil expert, I work as an engineer within the aerospace industry, hence I was able to get a sample of oil checked.
The laboratory we use would only supply factual data, and not opinions as to which is better/worse.
I will not be calling in additional favours from colleagues, as they would become agrieved at my pestering.
And I do not wish to advocate one brand from another.

As for your question about which is the 'best oil'?
I don't believe there is a definative answer for this.
One may be expensive, one may be cheap,
Some last a short length of time before degrading some last the life of the vehicle (15 years or 150,000 miles).http://synlube.com/whysyn.htm

All I would say is you pays your money and take your choice.
And use the one which you feel gives you the best value for money or if the price of the oil is of no concern the best? protection regardless of cost.

I personally have always worked on the principle 'change it often.
Four times minimum per year, irrespective of only covering low milaege in winter for example, or every 3000 miles maximum regardless of what oil it is.

And if its 'fit for purpose' then it will be ok.

MTR

turbodan

Obvious answer is no it wont damage your engine. No it won't make it go bang. I also suggest you edit that post and change 'adgenda' to 'agenda'. You have a reputation to protect here Pete!