WasteGate Chatter
08 August 2006, 02:38 PM
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WasteGate Chatter
Does my head in when i hear this as it's a load of rubbish.
There is NO! such thing as wastegate chatter.
The noise which sounds like this compared to a D/V.
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...tter+wastegate
Is caused by blanking off the DV and what happens is.
When the throttle is closed instead of the air hitting the butterfly then coming out of the DV hence the hom noise.
What happens is the air hits the spinning compressor blades on the tirbo hence making the above sound as seen on that S13.
Some people say it does cause premature turbo failure but actually DVs are fitted mainly as a noise supression device as punters don't like their cars making dodgy noises which they don't know.
Plus standard ones are of the recircuitlating type not vent to atmosphere which make the noise.
As for turbo failure some turbos run fine yet others aren't so good.
But thats another debate alltogether.......
There is NO! such thing as wastegate chatter.
The noise which sounds like this compared to a D/V.
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...tter+wastegate
Is caused by blanking off the DV and what happens is.
When the throttle is closed instead of the air hitting the butterfly then coming out of the DV hence the hom noise.
What happens is the air hits the spinning compressor blades on the tirbo hence making the above sound as seen on that S13.
Some people say it does cause premature turbo failure but actually DVs are fitted mainly as a noise supression device as punters don't like their cars making dodgy noises which they don't know.
Plus standard ones are of the recircuitlating type not vent to atmosphere which make the noise.
As for turbo failure some turbos run fine yet others aren't so good.
But thats another debate alltogether.......
08 August 2006, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by jd5217
i do realise this, just easier to relate to as wastgate chatter.
Just call it chatter or comp surge/stall.
08 August 2006, 03:01 PM
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i understand that blanking off the DV will cause premature failure of the turbo, i assume this is because the pressure wont come out the dv, its now hitting and stalling the turbo. How ever, will this have any effect on the performance / drivability of the car?
Cheers for the advice
Cheers for the advice
08 August 2006, 03:04 PM
#5
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ok then, i may be getting compressor surge/stall at very low boost.
Or due to induction I can hear the recirc of the dump valve.
Or due to induction I can hear the recirc of the dump valve.
Last edited by jd5217; 08 August 2006 at 07:26 PM.
08 August 2006, 03:42 PM
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yeah thats always annoyed me too lol, compressor wheel stall not wastegate chatter.... but DV not just noise supression, they will prevent stalling and possible reversing of the direction of the blades spinning
08 August 2006, 03:43 PM
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yeah thats always annoyed me too lol, compressor wheel stall not wastegate chatter.... but DV not just noise supression, they will prevent stalling and possible reversing of the direction of the blades spinning
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08 August 2006, 07:44 PM
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I found that when i had the bailey twin piston valve it would barely open low down and shut far too quickly causing surge.
I then had the forge one which was the same until i put in a softer spring. Ive gone back to the standard one now as it seems to open and dump fine at all levels of boost.
I ran it without one for a day and it did sound nuts but the car did not feel good coming back onto the gas. From what ive seen on other cars, the blitz and hks open well low down. I know this is a bit off topic but i thought id add my 2pence worth!
I then had the forge one which was the same until i put in a softer spring. Ive gone back to the standard one now as it seems to open and dump fine at all levels of boost.
I ran it without one for a day and it did sound nuts but the car did not feel good coming back onto the gas. From what ive seen on other cars, the blitz and hks open well low down. I know this is a bit off topic but i thought id add my 2pence worth!
09 August 2006, 08:43 AM
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so who running without a d/v would be ok or not?
steve
steve
Originally Posted by Bat-Fink
Does my head in when i hear this as it's a load of rubbish.
There is NO! such thing as wastegate chatter.
The noise which sounds like this compared to a D/V.
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...tter+wastegate
Is caused by blanking off the DV and what happens is.
When the throttle is closed instead of the air hitting the butterfly then coming out of the DV hence the hom noise.
What happens is the air hits the spinning compressor blades on the tirbo hence making the above sound as seen on that S13.
Some people say it does cause premature turbo failure but actually DVs are fitted mainly as a noise supression device as punters don't like their cars making dodgy noises which they don't know.
Plus standard ones are of the recircuitlating type not vent to atmosphere which make the noise.
As for turbo failure some turbos run fine yet others aren't so good.
But thats another debate alltogether.......
There is NO! such thing as wastegate chatter.
The noise which sounds like this compared to a D/V.
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...tter+wastegate
Is caused by blanking off the DV and what happens is.
When the throttle is closed instead of the air hitting the butterfly then coming out of the DV hence the hom noise.
What happens is the air hits the spinning compressor blades on the tirbo hence making the above sound as seen on that S13.
Some people say it does cause premature turbo failure but actually DVs are fitted mainly as a noise supression device as punters don't like their cars making dodgy noises which they don't know.
Plus standard ones are of the recircuitlating type not vent to atmosphere which make the noise.
As for turbo failure some turbos run fine yet others aren't so good.
But thats another debate alltogether.......
09 August 2006, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by 5cby
so who running without a d/v would be ok or not?
steve
steve
09 August 2006, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by GC8
To suggest that the (probably external) wastegate on a competition car is silent; would be extremely foolish.
Who did?
09 August 2006, 01:55 PM
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GC8 I did not mention competion cars or external wastegates.
So unless you can prove me otherwise.....
This was an response i was gonna put before the site went down
Yeah could be that mate as the DV won't be opening fully.
Don't mean to be pissy about things just annoys me when people call something different to what it is.
Errm wouldn't have thought so tbh mate some turbos can take the abuse and likewise some turbos will take it.
As for the other well it all depends on each car tbh mate.
Could be like what you ear with some DV's opening when they shouldn't but with solid piping with no DV wouldn't have thought leaks would appear.
So unless you can prove me otherwise.....
This was an response i was gonna put before the site went down
Originally Posted by jd5217
ok then, i may be getting compressor surge/stall at very low boost.
Don't mean to be pissy about things just annoys me when people call something different to what it is.
Originally Posted by Daz_WRX
i understand that blanking off the DV will cause premature failure of the turbo, i assume this is because the pressure wont come out the dv, its now hitting and stalling the turbo. How ever, will this have any effect on the performance / drivability of the car?
Cheers for the advice
Cheers for the advice
As for the other well it all depends on each car tbh mate.
Could be like what you ear with some DV's opening when they shouldn't but with solid piping with no DV wouldn't have thought leaks would appear.
09 August 2006, 03:04 PM
#18
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Originally Posted by Daz_WRX
im assuming the wear would be on the bearings and blades? whats the worse case scinario and will u get more lag without a dv on?
Cheers for the advise
Cheers for the advise
Its refreshing change for the chatter noise to be explained correctly though.
09 August 2006, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by MickWrx
Yep more lag without TBH....
09 August 2006, 06:01 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by flat4
ran for over a year without one (TD05) less lag if you ask me, as Tony says ^^^ 
that was running standard set up top mount oe ECU etc'positive pressure stalls the turbo blades in part causing lag re spool up' and the arguably nice sound.
my set up and personal experiance must of simply being different to yours.
Last edited by MickWrx; 09 August 2006 at 06:17 PM.
09 August 2006, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Bat-Fink
GC8 I did not mention competion cars or external wastegates.
So unless you can prove me otherwise.....
So unless you can prove me otherwise.....
Im not going to argue with you, suffice it to say that Im an adult who has forgotten more about performance car preparation than you know.
Now grow up and stop coming the c*nt with me.
09 August 2006, 07:06 PM
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Ran mine without a d/v just to try , cone filter fitted and it was a sort of muffled noise , was a bit annoying as i was hoping for the turbo chirp type noise from the wrc cars . Was explained to me by my mate who runs an impreza rally car with antilag that you would need antilag to keep the turbo spooled up and with you foot off the gas the air is ' chirping ' back through the turbine wheel as this is the easiest path cause of no d/v to escape through .
So may look at an antilag option ! in time, as he said his is switchable for road transport between stages .
So may look at an antilag option ! in time, as he said his is switchable for road transport between stages .
09 August 2006, 07:18 PM
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GC8 is correct, on competition cars runing high boost wastegate chatter does happen and it is of course where the term comes from.
When the throttle is closed running very high boost and no DV the reaction of the wastgate can be so severe it "Bounces" causing the noise, this effect can be amplified with some antilag systems. The majority of the noise on current cars does come from the turbo going into stall and the turbine blades cutting stalled air.
And as for stall, your turbo does not stall as 120000rpm to 0 instantly would be catastrophic. On blade compressors and fans if air flow is restricted you reach a point where there is not enough air flow for the blades to cut and produce pressure, at this point the load on the compressor/fan drops away and the unit is said to be in a stall condition. On some applications (Usually motor driven) the speed of the compressor/fan can actually increase during a stall condition.
The downside is the dynamic balancing in a stall condition goes to bits putting strain on the tubine shaft and bearings, also the turbine blades can be shock loaded leading to fatigue and failure.
It's why manufacturers fit DV's to road cars, to increase the reliability of the turbo by keeping air flowing through it and preventing a stall condition when you come off the throttle.
Some competition turbos with high levels of balance, 360 degree thrust bearings and stronger blades can put up with life without a DV but it's all a matter of design and use and abuse as to how long things last.
Cheers
Lee
When the throttle is closed running very high boost and no DV the reaction of the wastgate can be so severe it "Bounces" causing the noise, this effect can be amplified with some antilag systems. The majority of the noise on current cars does come from the turbo going into stall and the turbine blades cutting stalled air.
And as for stall, your turbo does not stall as 120000rpm to 0 instantly would be catastrophic. On blade compressors and fans if air flow is restricted you reach a point where there is not enough air flow for the blades to cut and produce pressure, at this point the load on the compressor/fan drops away and the unit is said to be in a stall condition. On some applications (Usually motor driven) the speed of the compressor/fan can actually increase during a stall condition.
The downside is the dynamic balancing in a stall condition goes to bits putting strain on the tubine shaft and bearings, also the turbine blades can be shock loaded leading to fatigue and failure.
It's why manufacturers fit DV's to road cars, to increase the reliability of the turbo by keeping air flowing through it and preventing a stall condition when you come off the throttle.
Some competition turbos with high levels of balance, 360 degree thrust bearings and stronger blades can put up with life without a DV but it's all a matter of design and use and abuse as to how long things last.
Cheers
Lee
Last edited by logiclee; 09 August 2006 at 07:23 PM.
09 August 2006, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by GC8
Daniel you are an annoying little boy posting on an adults website. The "wastegate chatter" to which you refer occurs only in competition cars. When you originally posted this I knew that Id read similar words somewhere, but I thought better of saying so..... To state that "there is no such thing as wastegate chatter" is as factually incorrect as suggesting that the unusual noise heard on competition (predominately rally) cars all come from the wastegate.
Im not going to argue with you, suffice it to say that Im an adult who has forgotten more about performance car preparation than you know.
Now grow up and stop coming the c*nt with me.
Im not going to argue with you, suffice it to say that Im an adult who has forgotten more about performance car preparation than you know.
Now grow up and stop coming the c*nt with me.
The thing you're on about with wastegates in external ones which is summant different to what i'm talking about so no need for getting personnal with me as thats not called for.
