morpheus1870

Why did you upgrade? What did you choose? How has it been since fitting? How much did it cost?

Are 5 speed boxes:
1) easier to fit compared to a 6speed less parts needs changing / adding
2) cheaper than an sti 6speed?
3) longer gears for town use
4) not as good on the motorway

Please add any more to the list above.

Next, if I opt for a 5speed updated box how will this change the gear feel? Is it more stiffer and mechanical feeling?

Carlh

uprated 5 speed boxes can take upto 600bhp safely
uprated are approx 30kgs lighter than the 6 speed

dunx

iTrader: (3)

You need to chat to Bez300 by PM, he did all that ( at vast expense ) and in the end he gave up and fitted a six speed...

dunx

P.S. He may still have the clutch and diffs for sale if you are lucky !

Guinness

iTrader: (1)

Fit a six speed... Tried and tested....I had a PPG 5 speed for 4 years running 570 bhp...I then wanted to push the power up and changed to a Hawkeye 6 speed...I only wished I'd done it sooner....

Alan...

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

umm 30kgs is a significant weight saving though if the wallet can take the strain

dunx

iTrader: (3)

It isn't just the wallet. They just aren't reliable enough for a road car, a track toy O.K. not important if it breaks, again, and again, and...

LoL

dunx

RA Dunk

Bollocks, there's been alot of 5 speed uprated (namely PPG) boxes sh@t them selfs way under 600.

I think PPG only rate them for 450BHP nowadays.

Tidgy

ppg dropped the rating on them down to 450 as said, but many still run higher than that. 6 speeds arn't by any means bullet proof although work out cheaper and do take stick well.

i went down the straight cut ppg route myself, i hated the 6 speed ratios.

also check out scoobyclinics 5 speed gearset, cheaper than the ppg and seems to be pretty strong

trails

iTrader: (41)

beat me to it...unless there is a new player out there...any details on a manufacturer that will guarantee a 5 speed set to 600lbs\ft gratefully received

morpheus1870

So a 6speed is cheaper than fitting a 5 speed?

Tidgy

fitting no, its just the cost of the kit. 6 speed will prob cost more to have fitted, need to install diffs etc as well

ppg is roughly 3.5k new iirc (rarley sold second hand, and just the box is required) + fitting
6 speed is circa 2.5k for everything you need including diffs (needs fitting on top though)
clinics kit is £2295 + 650 fitting

trails

iTrader: (41)

yes, at anything over 400 lbs\ft from both peace of mind and longevity perspective

trails

iTrader: (41)

says the protector of the PPG faith...how much torque you running Tidgy?

not knocking; just for the context of the OP

Tidgy

not running enough to test either mate, i've made no claim to, however when i blew up my 5 speed i looked into it myself for the very reason of eventualy wanting to go high power.

People seem to think that 6 speed box's are unbreakable. If you talk to some of the drivers who do more than the odd time attack or track day you find 6 speeds do fail. Syncro's failing kept getting mentioned as a common one, although teeth also do get stripped.

Every thread on here about which box to go for always end up as 'go 6 speed its better' which isn't true. Its very much like other things down to application and also preference, personaly I hate the ratios on a 6 speed compared to my 5 speed and before you ask how do i know, i drive my dads car regularly, he's got a 6 speed box in his sti, so i bet i drive both more often than most.

Clinic 5 speed seems to be performing pretty darn well, not huge amounts more than a 6 speed cost woise (although cheaper than a brand new 6er) and if i was having a box again i'd go down that route.

Im not specificly a ppg fan (i do think the fact they keep dropping the rating is a bit naughty and i think its now over priced), its more to do with im just not a huge 6 speed fan.

jd5217

Dont ignore the fact that the PPG boxes will whine.

Tidgy

depends if you like that or not i love mine,,, lol

but you can get helical cut that dont

jd5217

You may, but for an everyday car I would not want a noisy gearbox.

Tidgy

not sure you'd wanna use a car with enough power to worry any uprated gearbox as an everyday car. Besides which, you can chance gears to suit, such as 5th for a normal gear.

jd5217

there are many scoobs out there running in excess of 500bhp and are being used as everyday cars.

Changing 5th is ok if on a motorway cruise, but what about other roads where 5th is not required?

Tidgy

as said mate, personal choice on that front.

trails

iTrader: (41)

I'd agree that most people on here just repeat what they have heard rather than speak through experience or research but you have to admit that as a rule the six speeds are stronger and there have been far less failures...five speed failures are usually stripped gears or snapped selectors (all mine have been), whereas the six speeds are normally just syncros. Iirc the later six speed boxes do have uprated syncros anyway.

Personally I'd far rather run a five speed as I don't want the fear of a mis-shift and buzzing the engine. Its very difficult to get any definitive answer about either the Albins or the SC gearsets which takes me back to my peace of mind comment...although I don’t blame them as it would be a brave move to provide any kind of guarantee for an after market gearset.

Tidgy

6 speeds are strong as you say, but i don;t think there the be all and end all folks make out thats all.

yeah you can rebuild the 6 speeder with an uprated gearkit and sycros etc etc, ppg do a kit for that as well but its mega bucks, iirc ni on double the cost of a 5 speed kit.

I stripped 3rd gear clean on the isle of mann lol

dont forget no motorsports parts come with warrenty, not even pistons etc as soon as you open the packets, you've had it, unless theres a manufacturing fault thats visible, but pretty sure that 570ftlb is mentioned on the site. i know mikee, kev and andy have been giving them plenty of abuse lol

morpheus1870

Thanks for all the info, lots to take into consideration. The car is a wrx and is running approx 370-380lbft with only very little mileage done so far. Car is never to be tracked launched or driven hard for long periods of time. Mainly a weekend car for a little blast here and there. I hope the gearbox (and clutch) will be good for many years to come and I won't need to change it anytime in the near future. I'm not experienced in how strong the boxes are on a stock wrx (06) can only go on my previous wrx that was running approx 310lbft and never had any issues (however that was an 04 and a lot less torque).

Steve Whitehorn

iTrader: (13)

I have run all sorts of 5 speeds and a six speed in a classic.

In a nut shell. Some boxes are just stronger than others. And some people seem to be a touch more mechanicaly sympathetic.

You will always get the bloke saying ...but my mate has a TY752 that has put up with 350lbs for a few years...or whatever. And there are many exceptions to the crude rule of thumb below.

5speed - TY752 casing is the weakest. Gearsets are fine - Keep one of those sub 300hp
5speed - TY754 casing strongest - Keep one of those sub 350hp
5speed - TY754 casing with ppg gearset in - Keep one of those sub 450hp
6 speed - TY856 casing - over 400hp

The 6 speed is the strongest and it does handle monster torque.
But...

The syncros in 4th 5th and 6th are the weak point. It is worth getting a box stripped down and having these checked and replaced.

It is heavier

Many, Tidgy above, myself included much prefer the ratios of the 5 speed over the 6 speed.

Six speeds can break, they are far far less likely too and if you are going for big power/torque, and as more of a fit and forget option they are a no brainer.

You can run a PPG 5 speed at big power because of the ratios. It may well hold up, it is more likely to need to be pulled. If you are running a track car which you regularly pull apart and have deep pockets then why not.

To morpheus. At 370-380lbft some people, not everyone but quite a few have sucessfully run that kind of torque through a standard TY754.

I would stick with your TY754 5 speed. It may well hold up. But have the money tucked away and half an eye on plan B - A PPG gearset in your TY754 casing or a six speed.

Hope this helps
Steve

trails

iTrader: (41)

To play devils advocate the later
6 speed boxes from the 2.5 cars have very similar ratios to the 5 speed...that dosen't help with the shift pattern though.

morpheus1870

Thanks for that Steve was really good info there, I now know that the WRX 06 run the TY754. What does PPG actually stand for?

Tidgy

ppg is a trade name not a technical name

morpheus1870

Ah cool, I take it PPG is like the best type then. As mentioned previously, can anything be done to the oem gear set to strengthen it?

Tidgy

used to be accepted as best but tbh i dont think thats the case any more, as per above.

dunx

iTrader: (3)

Early six speeds had synchro issues, as did mine, but a tiny crunch shifting into top once every twenty shifts wasn't a massive bind IMHO.
Later boxes were uprated, and the hawkeye box I run now gives 80 mph at 3000 rpm. Which is nice, for a theoretical top speed of around 200 mph LOL

dunx

P.S. Cryogenic treatment is supposed to toughen components.