Sabas

iTrader: (22)

I'm getting my airbox put back on at the end of august, and getting a tweak, so was considering putting a newage tmic on, what fit classic's better? Sti or wrx 7 or 8, are these bug's or blob's? Do I need a bigger scoop or will the standard one do, would I need the undertray with it, and would they come with a re- circ valve? Thanks

Splitpin

It would help us help you if you told us what sort of "classic" you have. Fitting a newage TMIC is much easier on a 99/00/5/6 than it is on the earlier cars, for example.

As far as scoop size is concerned, some of the aftermarket ones are better, especially if you have a pre-facelift car, but the most important thing is to get your undertray fitting whatever IC you choose. Fitting an air director helps a lot too.

And as for all that 7/8/etc stuff, you'd be best off just not bothering with it at all, it's meaningless. Refer to bug, blob, hawk, or even better, model year, everyone knows what you're talking about.

Sabas

iTrader: (22)

Mine is a 1997 uk turbo with a phase 1.5 manifold.
With regards to 7,8 etc , I was wondering which one fits best, do they have re-circ attached, or a dv?

Sabas

iTrader: (22)

Also, are the air dividers in the scoop or part of the undertray? Thanks as always

Splitpin

"re-circ or a dv" is a bit of a non-sensical delineation, it's not one or the other, it's both. All production Imprezas have a recirculating dumpvalve. The newage type (whether the STi or WRX) is flange mounted to the front left of the IC, and in fitting one to your phase 1.5 car you're likely to face interference between the DV (in its standard location) and the idle control valve.

Few ways round that from fitting an extension pipe to the flange, to having one welded on.

The MY01-MY05 top mount intercoolers are the same size as each other (STi one a little bigger than the WRX, obviously) so that's another reason why the 7-8 stuff is meaningless.

Others have no doubt done exactly this on your model year of car so probably worth clicking search or having a browse down the projects board. From memory I think you might have a bit of a job squeezing a newage STi intercooler in - but the WRX one will be a fair bit easier.

Part of the undertray - although if you're going to stick with your facelift scoop (or get an aftermarket one), your best option would be to make an air director to fit (and modify your existing tray to fit the new IC) rather than trying to bodge a newage tray.

Sabas

iTrader: (22)

Hmm, might need a bit more thinking about then, thanks Splitpin

Sabas

iTrader: (22)

Forgot to ask, are the y-pipes the same or would I need a newage one too?

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

i fitted a 2003 TMIC, the recirc flange has been welded over,but a blanking plate can be fitted,does the same purpose

you will need to re-shape the metal part the gearbox mount under the TMIC attaches too,otherwise you get alot of knocking of the TMIC/body,it takes a few goes but looking now,you wouldnt notice right away its been done,as i tidied it up,repainted etc

i used samco y pipes to connect it all up,i had to trim the throttle body and inlet hose as well

fitting an STI one requirs cutting of the clutch bottle to shorten it

i fitted an STI 8 scoop (not to everyyons taste bu ti like it and it serves a purpose now and i fitted a 2003 undertray to match the TMIC,it needed cutting/trimming but can be done

some pic

The bit that needs trimming/re-shaping (not my car)




My TMIC Fitted












i have made some adjustments since these were taken so it fits better now, i had to fit the reversed strut brace as well

Steve T

iTrader: (14)

I had both the newage wrx and latterly the sti intercooler fitted to my last classic, along with a newage sti bonnet scoop and genuine under bonnet scoop.I would stick with the newage wrx intercooler as it,s much easier to fit and doesn,t need the clutch master cylinder cutting. I used the genuine sti master cylinder which is cranked to one side to save me cutting the original. As said ,do a search, theres plenty on the subject.

Sabas

iTrader: (22)

thanks for all the replies, after reading about all the adjustments needed, maybe I should just give up and go FMIC?

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Future proofs you for way beyond 400-450 - and much more! obviously - should you go FMIC.

Plus ACTs will never be an issue anymore....

Sabas

iTrader: (22)

can you run an airbox with a front mount, because if you definately need an induction kit, surely MAF problems will still occur?

Steve T

iTrader: (14)

If I was going to do the job again ,I would go for the front mount.

Sabas

iTrader: (22)

does seem like the way to go

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Even FMIC will require adjustments, different air filter etc if running a panel at the minute, trimming of front bumper etc plus other bit to get the piping right

the adjustments for the TMIC are not alot/bad,just have a go

Sabas

iTrader: (22)

I have a strut brace which might get in the way?

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Much as Splitpin says above.
If you fit the New Age STi top mount to a Classic, to do it properly you are embarking on a fair bit of work and without the scoop AND appropriate under tray for that top mount your results will be poor. Even done properly there are performance gains to be had from an efficient FMIC which is relatively simple to fit. Probably costs less too as you don't need a scoop or under tray and there are no brackets to make or complications with the ICVS or dump valve.

Sabas

iTrader: (22)

Harvey, how much are your fmic's at the moment?

Also, as you need an induction kit with a fmic, won't it still cause MAF problems? I don't understand how an induction kit and tmic is a no-no, doesn't an induction and fmic still affect the MAF?

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Hybrid GT £290 and GT2 £335. Both from stock. Fitting of both £185 or delivery £12.50 overnight. Drive in in the morning and drive out in the afternoon, job done if we fit.
After altering the induction, whether it be top mount or front mount you need a remap or as a minimum your MAF rescaled. The MAF sensor measures air flow and if you alter the inlet tract the manner of the flow over the sensor will alter and so your fuelling has to be adjusted.

Sorry I don't understand this bit :

If you explain a bit better I will try and clear up your concern. On a Classic car producing up to around 350 bhp the OE airbox and panel filter is quite adequate so there is little point going to a cone filter system until you reach that point. You cannot run the OE airbox with the front mount system as it will not physically fit.

Sabas

iTrader: (22)

I know what I want to say, not sure how to word it,

why is it that a maf will have problems with an induction kit which still has the TMIC, but lot's of people run an induction kit with a FMIC, surely it will still give maf's the same problems, I want to understand the difference between TMIC and induction kit and FMIC and induction kit, if it makes sense?!

Might be easier if I speak to you on the phone?

Splitpin

I get what you're asking:

Correct, pretty much everyone out there running a front mount intercooler on an Impreza will be running an induction kit, because with most of them there's no space to leave the standard intake bits in palce.

When you go from the standard induction tract/airbox/MAF tube to an induction kit, there are knock-on issues that need to be addressed. And, as you say, those problems need to be sorted whether you're running a top- or front mount intercooler. The practical difference is that, in most cases, if you are running a TMIC, especially on a >96MY car, there's little, if any point fitting an induction kit on its own, because for all the hassle and cost involved in the kit itself plus the MAF rescale/remap, there is little, if any, improvement in performance to be gained, and, under many scenarios, performance (and consistency of performance) can be lost compared with the standard induction.

As far as the question you're asking is concerned, there's no difference. The issue is that if you want to run a front mount IC, you have no choice but to run a cone filter, and you have no choice but to deal with the effects of both the cone and the FMIC. As Harvey says:

The practical issue for you under these circumstances Sabas is that, at time of writing at least, the only way for you to remap your 97MY car is via an aftermarket ECU. Clearly that may change in the short to medium term, with the work ESL are doing, but right now you'd need to figure the cost of the ECU and mapping to any decision you take.

I'd suggest that, provided your car is in otherwise healthy condition, you could fit the newage WRX IC and not need to remap - although under ideal circumstances you would at least be monitoring knock, and ideally AFR, to make sure.

Sabas

iTrader: (22)

Splitpin, so everyone running a FMIC without a maf-less ecu will have problems?

I don't know if you reply to pm's but I'm going to send you one, thanks for clearing things up, will look at a newage top mount

Sabas

iTrader: (22)

Would an sti 7 scoop, fit into my bonnet, or do I need an aftermarket one?

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

An original one wont fit, you will need to get an aftermarket one styled on an sti 7/8 Scoop for your classic

Sabas

iTrader: (22)

ah, but the undertray would fit?

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

The undertray wont fit in its original design, but if you cut it,trim it and re-drill some holes in it then it can be made to fit

Sabas

iTrader: (22)

would my strut brace get in the way?

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Possibly,depends on the make/height etc of it,some do,some dont

mine did,so i got the reversed type instead

Sabas

iTrader: (22)

is it worth it, do you think, really? It seems like quite a bit of work?

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Thats the whole fun in modding

I had the old slanty type so yes,it was worth it

If you think fitting the bigger TMIC is alot of work,if you do go FMIC, get it fitted by someone else !!