bonesetter

iTrader: (9)

Decided to fit the Bilstein dampers I picked up last year (good price), and do a comparison. I haven't seen too much feedback from anyone who has tried both the Bilstein and the V5 KYB 'red' OE STi damper.

My car is a WRX V-Ltd Type R (330BHP)

Both are inverted high pressure monotubed dampers, but the Bilstein is widely considered the superior performer. It has better low speed/bump damping, a better seal to prevent drying out and knocking around the damper cartridge body and the strut body opening. It also should have gone onto the P1, along with the 'UK specific' Prodrive developed P1 spring, but sadly was deemed too expensive so never made it.

I bought the KYB dampers new from a dealer two years ago when getting the car up to scratch, along with a new set of original P1 springs. Car has covered 6K miles on this set-up, and both springs and dampers were brand new

Here they are





They have been performing well, and really, I was happy with how they did everything. When I saw the Bilsteins at their price I couldn't resist...





So last week they went on

A world apart? Not really. However they do perform very well indeed, and has to said better than the KYB's. Straight from the off driving to the alignment garage it was obvious they were buttery smooth on the low speed, small bump stuff. The KYB is more 'nuggetty' on this type of road.

Their smooth theme continues when the going gets more fun, you get the sense there is more travel than before, and the end of that travel is something you never feel, a bottomless sensation. This gives more overall comfort and ultimately dynamic control when lunging in and out of the twisties. There is one yumpy crest on top of a bend on a favourite bit of test loop I like. The car goes light and plops down into a slight off camber compression. This usually provides a little lateral lunge when bottoming, but with the Billy's and the fast compression, the control was spot on, with a firm and precise feel, so top job from Bilstein on a perfect valving.

They have I think synergised well with the rest of the car (24/22 arbs, Brembo's, 5-Speed), and really have taken the car onto a better level. 'Astonishing' was something myself and a mate agreed on. Performance wise the car is now 'there'

If you can pick a set up, maybe to replace/upgrade your tierd dampers, I would recommend doing it - combined with the P1 spring, I really can't imagine any other set-up being better, certainly not more fun and involving...

Here's how they make the car sit



Here's the car with the KYB's

Arnie_1

Thanks for posting up the comparison bonesetter! As you mentioned, you're probably one of the few who've made a back to back comparison of the two strut types on the same exact spring/car. Really valuable data/information point here.

One thing I was noticing in your pic comparo above, the Bilstein damper combo looks like the rear is a wee bit higher than the KYB. This might just be due to the ground the photo was taken on. but if its indeed higher, that might indicate that it runs higher gas pressures than the KYB, leading to a slightly higher rear ride height. who knows!

Ginola

iTrader: (25)

Nice write up, seems like you have found the perfect fast-road setup for the classic.

bonesetter

iTrader: (9)

I was keen to look for any height variations after fitting and the car certainly seems to have lost the saggy butt look For the better I think as the front/rear heights look more even now

I had the KYB damper shafts side by side to the Bilsteins when fitting as I was trying to work out if a washer supplied fitted into the assembly (rears only I have to say) and thinking about it now there did seem a slight length difference - the Billy being ever so slightly longer... possibly 5mm and no more than 10mm I would guess

bonesetter

iTrader: (9)

The Bilstein/P1 spring combination is the fruits of Prodrive's work getting the imported Japanese spec classic (P1) honed for UK roads. The STi spring rate was firmer than the P1 up front and softer in the rear. This made for a handling where mid corner bumps would knock the car off line.

Combined with the slightly more compliant spring and the effortless Bilstein, intensive hooning sessions are even more of a pleasure

Gyver

iTrader: (1)

Where did you buy the bilsteins?
My STI5 legs needs replacement.

bonesetter

iTrader: (9)

eBay

Eacy

iTrader: (9)

Where to get the P1 springs, would like a set .
I got the Kyb dampers

bonesetter

iTrader: (9)

Aah, now you're asking

Sadly, there are no new ones around. I managed to find Scoobyspares last set I did phone Eibach a while ago and they said they would only consider making more of them for a minimum order of 50 - group buy anyone?

I felt sure 50 would be bought up by Subaru/motorsport sellers and was an easy amount to sell...?

You can find them used of course

Eacy

iTrader: (9)

Not a bad idea to get them to make some springs for us. We could make a little buisness Bonesetter + we have a spokesman in Arnie too

Arnie_1

Would be great. Only problem is the cost of getting into a Classic is so low now that the target audience has shifted dramatically from when they first came out. Very few people would be willing to spend the same amount for struts and springs when they can get cheap coilovers with all the bells and whistles for the same money or cheaper. Despite the coilovers being, IMO, vastly inferior in road performance.

The 36k GBP original buyer of a P1 is very different to the young chap who just spent 2500 for a used classic. I imagine .001% of these guys would ever consider spending, say 2000, for some KWs as that is the almost the price of the whole car. Whiile 8-900 for some BCs is still within the range of what they would most likely spend.

Sad times.

Richy B

iTrader: (3)

Good write up there Nigel, would have been lovely to have got mine fitted to the 22B and continued your comparision, but that's life!

If anyone would like a set of the exact shocks and springs mentioned above, I have a full set for sale here - http://bbs.22b.com/forums/showthread...rts-amp-Spares

Cheers,

Richy

ASJ

I swapped my 'old' inverted KYBs for new Bilsteins a couple of months back too. I'm using original '99 JDM springs still though.

Pretty sure my car sits 5-10mm or so higher on the new dampers - looks similar change to yours in the pics.

Not going to pretend I have the skills to describe minute changes in feel/behaviour via a 13 year old production bodyshell......but my thoughts are they feel a little 'softer' than the OE STi dampers. Could may be use the words 'more refined' possibly.

Not too fair to do a direct comparison as one set of dampers had 13 years of wear and tear on it. No Knocks/rattles and so far as I was concerned, still working well - including track use.

Your comparison is more valid since you had fresh KYBs

Good to read your opinions - thanks for posting.

Did you fit the 2 washers in the end? We could not see how they could fit with the top hats properly so left them out.....

Rgds, Ade

bonesetter

iTrader: (9)

Hello Ade. An old fiddle plays a good tune In some ways, compared to a few new age Scooby's my '97 Type R is tight as a drum, yet in the full on tight & twisties is so perfect dynamically, and has a more organic compliancy that makes for the more fun

Your observation of 'softer' is exactly mine... however, do you not think the Bilstein the better classic compliment with their superior valving, seemingly more travel, and better controlled, and ultimately more grip?

I can't remember what the washers are for just now. I'll post up when i remember, but I did find out, and they are not needed on the classic


.

ASJ

Just checked my ride height.........front is the same as on the KYBs, rear is 5mm higher. (This is after a couple of months so should have had time to 'settle'.)

Thanks for confirming the washers are not needed

Another reason for not trying to get too descriptive/technical on the feel comparisons is I have several sets of wheels/tyres (of differing sizes/weights) that I've been running on over the last 6 months - each naturally very different in feel themselves to one another.

Rgds, Ade

bonesetter

iTrader: (9)

Yeah, mine up a bit on the rear I thought in a good way as the car looks more balanced height wise front to rear now - gone is the saggy butt

Plus you get a little more useable travel...

Nic1911

iTrader: (1)

Anyone know what this type of setup is like on a newage blob sti?

Arnie_1

won't work properly. struts, though they would bolt up are completely wrong for the car. Spring pans are at improper height, and lower clevis holes as well.

smc ste

i run this set up on my series mcrae. and run bc coilovers on my rb5. took me a little while to get them together the bilstein/eibach,s. i bought brand new fronts with no springs then a beat up set with good condition original prodrive spec springs. paid 100 quid a corner on the rears to have them rebuilt at bilstein otherside of nuneaton. they are completely superior to bc coil overs on the country roads where i live come rain or shine. more poise and control. buttery primary ride.i know this is mad but i can take most speed bumps at 30 without worrying i really think until you can afford ohlins or that league of shocks the original prodrive spec shocks beat a coil over set up in day to day road driving every time.... tracks another matter but even then they dont disgrace themselves

Coppin1991

Were the red shocks you used the KYB AGX Adjustable shocks mate???

bonesetter

iTrader: (9)

No

OE from Subaru