Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

I am hoping this will be a thread that will develop for everyone to share their experiences, knowledge and opinions of the various Classic Impreza McPherson strut and spring combinations (not coil-overs).
Primarily looking at the differences between P1/STi struts and the well regarded Prodrive WR Bilstein setup, with various spring combinations.

Hopefully it will also evolve as a kind of 'wiki' containing technical details and specifications of the various options.

I have tried to get my car to look and behave as it should on the Prodrive Bilsteins and Prodrive Blue springs, which are the springs that came with the original kit, but alas no longer available.

I have tried :
Eibach Pro : Were OK and were transferred over from my OE shocks to Bilstein Silver Inverted. The ride height was no lower on the Bilstein or OE shocks. Only marginally lower then OE springs. The ride was OK but the front seems a little soft and would dive quite heavily under braking and make the rear quite unstable as a result (the spring rate chart linked above would seem to concur with the soft front rating).

Tein S-Tech : Nice look being about 20mm lower (or maybe more, need to check my records). Far too soft on the rear with alot of bounce and bottoming out (rear wheel/tyre hitting the inner arch running 225/35x18 on an ET51). These were fine on German roads (although maybe not The Ring), but as soon as I was back on UK soil the bounce on the rear was back. You could also feel the **** of the car compress on the outer corner under hard accelerative cornering, regardless of what I did with the adjustable ARB.

Prodrive P1 Red springs : Ride height was pretty much back to where it was on the Eibach Pro. The rear was only 7mmm down, the front was exactly the same. The front did not suffer the dive issue so much (although they were not on the car long enough really to full determine/appreciate this effect). However, the car was pretty much transformed when compared back-to-back within hours to the Tein's.
The car changed from soemthing were you felt nervous to push on too hard, to something which felt alot more capable then I was willing to push.
However, the ride height sucked..... as it was the same as the eibach and no where near as low as a collegues MY98 WR running the original Bilstein WR setup (my car for many years has often parked next to this one and the MY98 WR has always sat lower).

STi Pink 'Lowered' - Imported : Ride height on these get's the car back to almost as low as the Teins and on a par with the original Prodrive WR setup, so happy days here.......
Ride is very good and the initial 'turn-in' on the front is absolutley superb. However, the back still seems a little bit bouncey.
It's alot better then the Tein's but still not as compliant to UK roads as the P1 Red's.
You don't notice any softness when cornering hard, as I did with the Tein's. But on bumpy UK A/B roads where you hit the odd compression, or even on motorways that have the odd large compression/dip in the road surface, it still feels a little bouncey at the back (maybe I am now really sensitive to this and it's not really such an issue !!!!!!!).

However, I am still chasing the perfect setup for my Bilstein's (I emailed Prodrive last week, but just got diverted to Olly at RCM).

To summarise my requirements, ultimatley I want the Prodrive WR Blue springs (I think).
However if a P1 spec spring with more drop could be procurred replicating as close as possible the Prodrive Blues, that would be the best compromise.

I also understand that latter Bilstein WR kits were sold with P1 Red springs, so they would appear to be compatible/interchangeable and to similar specifications. Threads elsewhere indicate this and also mention the slight difference in ride height.

I look forward hearing other peoples views..........

2pot

iTrader: (3)

Weren't there 2 versions of bilstein/wr spring. Only interchangeable as complete sets.

Bilstein Pre'99
2030055120 (7114262M000) 2030055130 (7114261M000) 2220055120 (7104264M000) 2220055130 (7104263M000)

wr front spring blue 2040055040
wr rear spring blue 2230055060

Bilstein '99 on professional/hard version
F4VE34625M0 F4VE34626M0, F4VE34627M0 F4VE34628M0

wr front spring grey 20330FA890
wr rear grey C35R

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

If it helps, I'll crawl under mine and get some P/N's off them. Been meaning to do this for ages for Alyn.

The only WR springs I have notes/references of are :
Front : 20400550410
Rear : 2230055060

2pot

iTrader: (3)

I've got koni inserts with p1's and front shock extenders, and bilsteins with the following numbers:
2030055120 (7114262M000) 2030055130 (7114261M000) 2220055120 (7104264M000) 2220055130 (7104263M000)
I'm about to have the bilsteins rebuilt specifically for the st gymkhana springs.
They did come with blue springs - which I still have - no part numbers left on the fronts, but there are some green and pink markings still visible.
The blue rears are fairly new 09 97 2230055070 supposedly bought at at the P1 sell off day - god knows what they're for.

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

I could be interested in the blue springs if your looking to off load them.

lift from a US forum "when i bought my RS, the PO said it had 'prodrive sti' suspension on it. took a look at it today and it has silver bilstein struts (they say prodrive on em) and blue eibach springs marked with "48 98" and "2230055060."

2pot

iTrader: (3)

If you want try them out, as an experiment? I'll send them. You can decide if they're any use to you.
PM your address.

veerinder9

iTrader: (1)

All these part no's are confusing!! lol. Ive been looking into different shocks for these p1 springs but they are pricey and sort of coilovers price range. Anyone suggest any shocker options please?

2pot

iTrader: (3)

Kyb agx's are the cheapest, new, to work with P1 springs

veerinder9

iTrader: (1)

Thanks 2pot. These are £620 new from camskill. Any other places you'd recommend?

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

It's a shame as they could do with being a touch lower. -10mm front & back would be fine, so not as low as the Tein's which were -15mm front and -17mm back when compared to the P1 Red's.

Measurements (all taken from floor to arch across wheel centreline running 18's and 35 profile tyres)
Eibach Pro
Front 648mm
Rear 652mm

Tein S-Tech
Front 633mm (-15mm Vs Eibach)
Rear 628mm (-24mm Vs Eibach Pro)

P1 Eibach (Red's)
Front 648mm (-0mm Vs Eibach Pro)
Rear 645mm (-7mm Vs Eibach Pro)

STi 'Pink' Lowered Variant
Front 632mm (-16mm Vs Eibach Pro)
Rear 632mm (-20mm Vs Eibach Pro)

Eibach Pro's (Sorry no pictures of P1 Reds, but they measured the same on the front and -7mm on the rear)


Tein S-Tech


STi 'Pink' Lowered Variant

imprezaworks

iTrader: (9)

What's the set up on the top pic? Looks similar to how mine is

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

Silver Billies and Eibach Pro's, so similar to P1 which were only 7mm lower on the rear.

imprezaworks

iTrader: (9)

Cheers. Does look how mine sits on yellow bilsteins and eibach's.

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

Thanks to 2Pot for providing the Eibach Blue's and for those interested I now have images of Eibach Pro, P1 Red, Tein S-Tech, STi Pink 'Lowered' and Prodrive Eibach Blues.

I aim to put the Eibachs Blues on over Christmas, to see what the ride height ends up. I will probably do just the rear for the moment, to see where it sits and how the rear rides compared to the rest, as it's the rear I haven't been 100% happy with on a lowered spring.

Prodrive Vs Eibach Pro (Front) Note : The Prodrive appears shorter then the Eibach Pro, but on the car it sits at the same height, therefore this proves it must be a high spring poundage.


Prodrive Vs Eibach Pro (Rear) Note : As above the Prodrive appears considerably shorter then the Eibach Pro, but on the car it only sites 7mm lower despite a large difference off the car. Again proving the higher spring rate of the P1 Red.


Prodrive Vs Eibach Pro Vs Tein S-Tech (Front) Note : Tein S-Tech is approx. the same height off the car as the Prodrive. Yet the Tein S-Tech sits considerably lower on the car, hence proves this is a lower spring rate.


Prodrive Vs Eibach Pro Vs Tein S-Tech (Rear) Note : As above for the Tein S-Tech


STI Pink 'Lowered' Vs Tein S-Tech (Front) Note : The STi Pink appears shorter then the Tein S-Tech, but on the car it sits slightly higher then the Tein S-Tech, therefore this proves this is a higher spring poundage.


STi Pink 'Lowered' Vs Tein S-Tech (Rear) Note : The STi Pink appears shorter then the Tein S-Tech, but on the car it sits the same/slightly higher (depend and on fuel load) then the Tein S-Tech, therefore this proves this is a higher spring poundage (on paper these springs rates nearly the same).


Prodrive WR Eibach Blue (Front) Note : The Prodrive WR Eibach Blue's appear closest to the P1 Red with regard to coil spacing. Maybe a touch more progressive on the bottom 2 coils, but with coil spacings not as much as the Eibach Pro or Tein.


Prodrive WR Eibach Blue (Rear) Note : Very noticeable that Prodrive WR Eibach Blue is a lot more linear. The rears on the Reds, Pro's and Teins having 3 or 4 tight coils. Wheras this one doesn't really have any. I'm hoping this is what I need as it may be the progressive nature of the other springs that is giving me the slight bounce on the rear I want to loose. Hard cornering is fine........ It's fast straight bumpy B-road pace and motorway dips and compressions that I want to loose the springy/bouncey bum.


Also worth noting is that these springs are badged Eibach and contain Eibach part numbers with no reference to Prodrive. So maybe it would be less of a copyright issue to get Eibach to reproduce these.

2pot

iTrader: (3)

Glad to try and help.

Bilstein/eibach soft was 171/140
front strut and spring 2000055020
rear strut and spring 2000055030
rear strut and spring wagon 2000055040

Bilstein/eibach hard 196/168
front strut and spring 2000055050
rear strut and spring 2000055060

hth

I knew there was a link somewhere: http://share.subiefiles.com/share/pa...%20catalog.pdf

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

Well I'm pretty much running the above, as I have the STi -30mm springs.
Therefore :

Bilstein/STi Pink 196/173
Front Spring ST2040055060
Rear Spring ST2230055100

2pot

iTrader: (3)

Maybe you'd prefer the linear style eibach blue, at the rear, as opposed to the progressive sti pink?
But is the linear rear spring I sent you a 140, or a 168, wagon or saloon? - I don't know.

Also, the valving on the soft bilsteins/eibachs was:
front rebound/compression 127/53
rear 89/43

hard bilsteins/eibachs was:
front rebound/compression 190/60
rear 140/45

Wonder if your under damped? - higher rate sti pinks, on the early bilsteins. Particularly as the bilstein/eibach combination was intentionally over-damped, in its original design concept.

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

I think linear rear would be better.
Mine appear to be the later Bilsteins, that were sold off by Prodrive when the moved on to Mini's.
Struts direct from Bilstein I believe have the valving setting etched on the top of the damper. But as these came from Prodrive this info is not present.

I would soon be able to tell if the Eibach Blues are soft, as I should feel them compress upon cornering as the Tein's did this quite badly, despite being rated similar to the STI Pinks.

2pot

iTrader: (3)

Eibach grey linear springs 196/168 for the wr professional/hard bilsteins - F4VE34625M0 F4VE34626M0, F4VE34627M0 F4VE34628M0
There were 8 x '99 wr rear springs available at the P1 sell off day



20330FA890?

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

Fitted the Blue Eibach WR Spec springs on the rear today.
From the photo's you can see that the Blue Eibach is a touch shorter then the STi Pink 'lowered' spring.



Measured the rear ride height before fitting, then took the car out for a 40 mile spirited drive. Threw £20 of fuel in to get the tank to the same level and re-measured.

The Blue WR Eibach seems to sit 7mm higher then the STi Pink. So as hoped and expected it does sit lower then the P1 Red. I was hoping for around 10mm but happy to settle with 7mm.

My measurements of the rear are therefore :
P1 Red 645mm
WR Blue 637mm (measured today, with similar fuel load to the below)
STi Pink 'Lowered' 630mm (measured today, with similar fuel load to the above)

The performance comparing the pink to the blue are that the blue seems to soak up bumps at the rear well with slightly less bounce when compared to the pink. It is really really close in performance and had I not known that the rear springs were changed hours beforehand I probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Overall I think the blues work very very well and gave a huge grin factor when I first started to push on. The Pinks will be going back on as the Blues are being sent away to be spec'd, so I will drive exactly the same road on the pinks and report back.......(to be continued)

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

My rear Bilstein P/N's

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

Guy's.....just wondering if we should put all this in a separate thread outside of the group buy.
I am conscious that it is not sticking to the original topic, and that it may be better if it is discussed elsewhere, with links back to this group buy.
It may also generate more interest in the chassis section.

Your thoughts ????

mickywrx

iTrader: (29)

That might be a good idea, Scott. Although I'd be inclined to leave the information on this thread also.

How are you taking your measurements?

Wheel arch > Road? Only ask as I thought it was/should be arch to the centre of the hub.

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

Floor to arch lip (the metal radius, not the plastic or rubber trim) on a level garage floor.
It's too difficult to measure hub centre.

I appreciate all my measurements may not match those of others due to wheel size, tyre profile, tread depth and tyre inflation. But it does indicate like for like differences, as close as possible.

It certainly doesn't look a lot different on the WR Blues compared to the STi Pinks.
Whereas when I fitted the P1 Red's even my 11 year old son said it looked higher (and he didn't like it...LOL....).

mickywrx

iTrader: (29)

Totally agree, they won't match others, but, at least you're measuring in the same place so it'll give a fair representation of any drop in ride height.

I'll swap you the STI Pinks for a set of nearly new Eibach Pro's and a set of Tein S-Techs.........

If you were going to sell the pinks, what sort of money would you be looking for? OT I know, and PM if preferred.

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

STi Pink Front Vs Eibach WR Blue Front.
These are pretty much the same, with the exception that the Sti pink has slightly wider coil spacing in the middle and the WR Blue has the top coil machined flat. Both measure approx 13mm gauge spring material.

On the car the WR Blue is a touch lower, -5mm (starting to get too low IMHO), probably due to the machining of the top coil and a slight reduction in static spring rate.

Out on the road they feel similar, but the STI Pink feels more positive and connected on initial turn-in, which is more then likely due to subtle change of 'loaded' spring rate and maybe age related due to a new near STi Pink Vs unknown WR Blue.

If I were to chose between the 2 it would be STi Pink.

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

Front Bilstein P/N's for reference :

2pot

iTrader: (3)

I have seen wr 171 soft blue springs, that match the soft bilsteins, with both the machined and full top coil.
I'd say worn out, machined 171's, against new, un-machined 195's

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

I don't think these Blues are 171, as they would of compressed a lot more and sat considerably lower. The difference of 25lbs/in is quite alot compared to the supposed harder Bilstein setup of 196lbs/in.

From experience of fitting the harder yet shorter P1 Red's on the back, in your hand you think they will be lower due to them being a much shorter spring, but the extra 15-20lb/in on the Red compared to the other springs (Tein/Eibach-Pro) made them ride/sit more then just a few mm's higher then Tein.
Also consider this was on the back where there is less weight.
On the front where there is more weight, a difference in spring rating of this magnitude would of made a considerable difference to ride height.

Therefore I don't think there is a great deal of difference between the STi Pink 'lowered' variant and the Eibach Blue we are currently comparing. Probably more an age related thing then a large difference in spring rate.

We'll find out when I send them of to be profiled.

t16coupe

are u selling the eibach pro's