Cosworth Sump Baffles

Alan Jeffery · 20 February 2008, 22:48

We are now making available for £150 inc carriage and vat the latest sump baffle kit from Cosworth. These fit the entire Impreza range, and slip easily between the sump and the block. Proven in competition, these baffles considerably reduce the massive crankcase pressure and blow by experienced with these high power high revving engines.
You owe it to yourself to pop one in with your next oil change!
Pictures of these items are on our website at Alan Jeffery - Engine Tuner on page 14 of the Gallery section.
More info of the Cosworth range of Subaru components available from Enginetuner are on Cosworth

jd5217 · 21 February 2008, 08:27

see you later today then.

Alan Jeffery · 21 February 2008, 09:02

Yours is in stock!

**frayz** · 21 February 2008, 10:19

Is this not just a windage tray Alan?

Alan Jeffery · 21 February 2008, 10:39

It IS a windage tray, but it's also a baffle, preventing oil from splashing up under heavy acceleration and braking. There are a number of different way of dealing with this, but from our perspective, this looks useful and a good solution. We've noticed with the Murtaya that they tend to puff out smoke after a really hard standing start, and we think oil is ending up in the breather system.

ZEN Performance · 21 February 2008, 10:46

how do these reduce blowby Alan?

Alan Jeffery · 21 February 2008, 16:48

Hi Paul !
There's a magic word missing from the Cosworth blurb. It should read "problems" after the words "blow by" Of course nothing can restrict piston to bore blow by if you have it, being endemic.
The Cosworth take on it is that crankcase pressure restricts rapid oil return from the heads to the oil pan. The baffle has diverters to control oil flow and one way valves prevent oil re-entering the upper crankcase. They say the breathers will work more efficiently with this device fitted.
Apparently Cosworth are also working on a fully finished dry sump system that will be available from around June this year.

ZEN Performance · 21 February 2008, 22:19

Just checking Alan!

Their dry sump system looks good so far.

jd5217 · 22 February 2008, 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Jeffery

Yours is in stock!

and sold

**dynamix** · 22 February 2008, 18:49

These look fantastic

Here's mine:

Alan Jeffery · 22 February 2008, 19:26

Has to be worth it, I'd say... We have four engines on the go as we speak, all getting one of these. Supplies from stock if anyone wants one.

**dynamix** · 22 February 2008, 19:30

£150 for some extra peace of mind is great value.

ps - alan, hope you dont mind putting some pictures on here but I thought it needed to be shown to see what people should be getting excited about.

Shame it is inside the engine though IMO.

Alan Jeffery · 22 February 2008, 20:54

Hey, that's fine! many thanks.. I need to find the time to figure out how to do it myself!

cookstar · 22 February 2008, 21:00

Oh dear, this is one of those annoying things that I want to buy now, even though I dont know what it does

Are these easily fittable by a novice?

Alan Jeffery · 22 February 2008, 21:29

I know exactly what you mean!

The difference is with these, they actually do something, and you don't have to polish it after you've fitted it!
They are an easy fit with an oil change, just drop the sump and pop one in.
AND we accept visa etc...

Area 52 Autosport · 23 February 2008, 14:26

A word of warning.

We have just fitted one of these trays to Duncans (Dynamix) time attack car with almost disastrous consequences!

The baffle tray dropped oil pressure to 6 psi at idle. Max pressure we could achieve was just 40 psi! Not what you want on a brand new £3k+ engine

Needless to say it's not on anymore (and oil pressure is back to normal)

Jase.

jd5217 · 23 February 2008, 17:07

is this something that should be discussed with cosworth if it is going to cause potential disastrous consequences.

Area 52 Autosport · 23 February 2008, 17:57

Yup, I will be speaking to them first thing Monday.

Jase.

jd5217 · 23 February 2008, 18:10

surely they would have looked into this?

mine is waiting to be fitted next week.

Area 52 Autosport · 23 February 2008, 18:18

You would think!

Cosworth tray: 6psi @ idle, 40 psi @ 3000rpm
OEM tray: 25 psi @ idle, 80 psi @ 3000rpm

Truly baffling

Jase.

black newage · 23 February 2008, 18:27

is this a case of dont buy just because it looks nice?

**dynamix** · 23 February 2008, 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scooby Mania

You would think!

Cosworth tray: 6psi @ idle, 40 psi @ 3000rpm
OEM tray: 25 psi @ idle, 80 psi @ 3000rpm

Truly baffling

Jase.

Indeed

It is a shame, but Steve - this is staying out of my car until we can establish from Cosworth what there results/findings/research etc is. We know what difference it made and it wasnt the desired intention.

Sorry if this puts the dampener on the group buy Alan, but we felt it was best to share our findings to save others having problems.

Alan Jeffery · 23 February 2008, 20:54

It's possible there was another reason for that one! first I've heard of it.
As the pickup pipe is in the original location it makes no sense at all.
I bet I'll be on the 'phone before you are!

**dynamix** · 23 February 2008, 21:02

All I can say is what I saw with my own eyes Alan. Oil pressure dangerously low with the plate in place. Sump dropped and plate removed and oil pressure perfect. No other changes.

I am very disappointed - I am sure Cosworth would not develop something incorrectly or untested, but it did exactly what we are saying it did.

Alan Jeffery · 23 February 2008, 21:10

You know, the more I think about this one, the more unlikely it sounds.
The oil pressure is generated in the pump, and feeds directly into the galleries. The only oil coming into contact with the baffle is the waste stuff that drips about the place. The pickup pipe seems to be the likely culprit. Are you absolutely sure it wasn't fouled by the plate when it was fitted, leaving a gap between the pick up pipe and the block? You can see clearly in Dynamix's pics where the hole is cut for the pick up pipe to fit through. It's designed so that it doesn't/shouldn't interfere with the pick up position. These items have been used in international rallying already!
I won't send any out until this is cleared up for certain of course. We have one going on on Monday, and I'll report back right away.

**dynamix** · 23 February 2008, 21:21

I am not sure I get what you mean Alan.

From the looks of it from my point of view, the pick up pipe bolts through a hole in the baffle into the block. I am sure Mike/Jase would be able to say the exact details of it, but the pick up pipe was fine and in the same location in the sump. If the oil was there, it would have picked it up.

Each time it was investigated and measured (this was not the first element that was investigated) the pressure was fine then dropped as if oil was getting stuck above the plate and starving the system.

Alan Jeffery · 23 February 2008, 21:32

Stuck above the plate? even if it was, and I can't see that one, I'm not sure that would reduce the actual pressure.
Please believe me, I'm on your side big style. I don't have an agenda here, there isn't that much money in it at those prices! I just thought it would be good to go, considering the potential benefits here.
Having been in on this sort of caper for most of my adult life on a daily basis, I can tell you there's often an explanation that isn't right in front of you, despite wishing to see one.
You had to remove the pick up pipe to get the plate off, maybe there's something going on there? I must have seen a hundred different reasons why oil pressure can go haywire...
JD? we're fitting one on your car Monday!

Alan Jeffery · 23 February 2008, 21:37

Are you sure you didn't leave your finger in there?

**dynamix** · 23 February 2008, 21:45

Alan - I'm totally with you. When you put one on Steve's car please let us know the feedback on the pressures. Mike, Jase and I all really wanted this to work on track (we didnt have agendas either) and were surprised that through the process of elimination that it was the cause. Just to let you know as soon as we found this, as we were aware that you were promoting them, to check first and compare findings.

None of us could believe that the rubber flaps (which are very flexible even when cold) would interfere to that extent.

I am sure that there must be a good explanation.

Area 52 Autosport · 23 February 2008, 22:47

Alan,

On first fire up last night oil pressure dropped to 6 psi (in car SPA gauge), thinking the gauge suspect we swapped to a mechanical gauge and found no difference.

Suspecting a possible issue with the pump we removed it to double check the rotor clearance & relief valve. Nothing untoward and pressure on refit/restart was unchanged. We then dropped the oil & filter to inspect, again no problems. On restart no change.

After a little head scratching we decided to remove the sump & baffle plate to reinstall the OEM windage tray. This baffle plate is the only item that differs on this build to the others we have done. On removing the plate (circa 0.5L was trapped above it btw) we noticed that one of the flaps had been sucked up through its corresponding hole. Not surprising with a mini hurricane going off in there! No issues regarding the fitment of the pickup btw.

With the stock windage tray fitted oil pressure was up to 25 psi warm idle and circa 80 psi at 3000rpm (6 psi & 40 psi before).

Jase.